William and Myself

sorry it took so long, I was visiting family this weekend. I trust you had a good Easter. Christ is risen!

Now, lets discuss your post. First off, I would like to point out that every one of these verses you attacked in MV, you failed to explain WHY they disagree with the KJV. This is a little thing called "intellectual honesty".

In layman's terms, intellectual honesty occurs when those who disagree with you hear you describe their position, they are able to say "yea, thats pretty much what I believe!" You have not done this. You are posting things that NONE OF US MV USERS HERE ADHERE TO.

Every single one of you arguments seem to be pirated. The moderators here even had to edit your posts so that they werent guilty of breeching copyright laws! This shows one thing: you are not educating yourself on this topic, but merely have been convinced by ONE SIDE of this debate, and are now shouting from the rooftops without one clue what is going on.

From now on, if you claim you care about truth (which so far you have not) then when you see something that you disagree with, ask "WHY"????

Why do they believe that? Why do I disagree???? As of now, you are pretending that MVs just wanted to replace the KJV. This is a lie, plain and simple. Research your opponent, be HONEST about what and why they believe, and then explain why you disagree. This is what I will do, and this is what Paul and the other apostles did. They reasoned with them, used FACTS and EVIDENCE, not conspiracy theories.

now, to your post:

Explain to me how "being in very nature God" is not a clear statement of Christ's deity. Is there a textual variant here? Why is the MV translation different?

You seem to be overtly ignorant of Jewish law. Joseph was Jesus' LEGAL father. Even the KJV calls Joesph his "father" in Luke 2:48. We all have earthly fathers and a heavenly father. Jesus didnt have a biological father, but please explain how it is denying the virign birth to admit that Joseph was Jesus' legal father.

1) WHY is this phrase deleted?
2) Is the doctrine of Blood Atonement missing from these versions since it is not in this verse?

You simply cannot be serious.....we are not SONS of God like Jesus is, we are SONS by adoption. Jesus is the one and only SON OF GOD, otherwise, Kenneth Copeland, if he was a good boy, could have been the Christ (which he claimed God told him in a vision). Since Jesus is God's only son, Copeland is in error.

1) Why do the MV's say this?
2) Does the KJV do the same thing?

Once again, WHY do the MV's read this way? Are you aware of their argument? Would you care to refute it, or simply recycle every other dead horse in some desperate attempt to convince someone you have a clue? So far, every one of your arguments have already been disproved, and you dont even know it! Have you ever read the arguments AGAINST your position? It seems you are GLEEFULLY living in ignorance, and peddling your false doctrine to those of like mind. Maybe you will change in the remaining points. Lets see....

If your statement is true, then the KJV translators are the most ignorant men who ever walked this earth.

Instead of proving your incredible claim wrong, would you mind finding the textual note that was present in the KJV 1611 regarding this verse in Isaiah, and posting it here? If you actually read this version your claim to be defending, it should be really easy. Thanks!

only one question: Are you aware of how many times the KJV does the exact same thing? Would you mind posting a couple of examples, and then explaining why it is OK for the KJV to do things which are considered WRONG in the MVs?

LOL! I cant wait for you to explain WHY the MVs read this way. Can you do some reseach and find out why, or do I have to educate you on the ENTIRE discussion here? Please post WHY the MVs read this way.

WHY????? Why is it removed? For 2 seconds, put Riplinger down and check her sources!!! Explain why the MVs do this, and tell me why you disagree with their decision.

Yes, satan did launch an attack. So far, it has been through your words. They are so filled with ignorance and error that Satan is throwing a party. I am not insulting YOU, rather you have believed a liar, you have been decieved. You have read either Riplinger or Ruckman, or been indoctrinated by someone who has, and you have not checked (like the Bereans) to see if what they are saying is true.

Only if you can defend it with scripture, fact, and plain reason. You cannot, however, since you seem to not have a clue what is going on here. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, for now on, GET ALL THE FACTS before you charge off into battle against false doctrine. Make sure you are fighting the right people. Right now, you arent.

once again, WHY do they read this way, and why do you disagree?

Very good question!!!! WHY isnt it there? Why do you think it should?

LOL! Do you even care if you are repeating lies? How do you explain the NASB:
Acts 15:11
"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
Acts 18:27
And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,

Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.

Acts 20:24
"But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

Acts 20:32
"And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

NOW I ASK YOU, did you check to see if what you had posted was true? Yes or no.

Once again, please tell me why, and why you disagree.

Are you aware of how many lies and false information you have already posted? Shall we now consider YOU to be DEFILED? Are you also this LEAVEN?

I have read about 12 independent studies which completely disagree with this ONE study. Are there any others which agree, or are we all to throw out our common sense, and believe that "fetched a compass" is an easier read than "turned around"?

Whats funny, Nelson publishing, which sells more KJV bibles than anyone I am aware of these days, completely disagrees, and so does EVERY OTHER TEST I have ever seen. The KJV is on about a 11.8 reading level, NASB on a 11.2, NKJV on a 10.3, NIV 7.9, and so on. The KJV is not easier to read, and claiming so will only get you laughed at, and would make even non-christians spit out anything you say. Lets be honest, please.

Interesting, I have also read about the spuriousness of this quote. Would you mind referencing it, please? Where did you hear it, and where did it orignate? Forgive me if I attempt to be a Berean, so bear with me.

How old was he by then? Did anything similiar happen to the KJV translators? Several of them DIED DURING THE TRANSLATION PROCESS!!! Should we now assume that they were doing Satans work, and were thereby punished? I think you would disagree.

Same question as previous statement. Please answer again.

Please post 3 examples of when the KJV does the same thing, and why you feel it is OK for the KJV to do this, but wrong for the NIV to do it. Thanks!

The TR is a back translation from the KJV. It is not a greek text, but rather a greek translation of the KJV. The more you type, the more you show you are simply a robot, lied to by Riplinger or Ruckman.

As for the TR which the KJV translators had, they rejected it in several areas. Can you post 3 examples of this?

WHY? Is there a textual variant?

The only difference I see is one of 17th century english verse 21st century english. Would you mind explaining what is missing?

Interesting, since TCassidy, whom I disagree with often, and most of the time can hardly stand, has actually educated himself and not taken the word of proven liars like Riplinger. You have done nothing but plagiarize this entire debate.

You have disproven yourself, because your argument , at its core, is ONE THING:

I assume that the KJV is perfect because I want to.

Everything else stems from that.

I will await your responses, because only THEN can we have a real discussion. Use YOUR BRAIN, try not to steal from KJVO authors.

Have a good day!

 

william,

I thought you wanted an honest exchange of information and ideas? You have not answered a single one of my questions!!!

As for your COVERALL answer about the 98% deal, ARE YOU AWARE OF THE TIMES WHEN THE KJV GOES AGAINST 98%, OR IN SOME CASES, 100% OF THE MANUSCRIPTS ON THE PLANET?????

What happens then? Who decided when to go against the majority and when not to, and why am I forced to agree???

 

First off, to this point you have shown that you are unwilling to participate in an honest discussion. You cannot quote my whole post, when addresses each point with fact, scripture, and plain reason, and then attempt to answer it in 4 sentences. Please consider my argument, as an honest man would do, and then if you disagree, explain WHY. THIS is what is meant by "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another"

Which is more important, tradition, or truth?

I ask again, which TR? Do you even know the difference, or is that why you have not answered any of my questions?

So, you dont really care if MOST of it isnt true, as it seems you are unable to refute, but if ONE of them is true, then we must use the KJV??? WHAT? Perhaps a lesson in logic would do you some good: If you show ONE error in the MV, it means nothing!! WE ARENT THE ONES CLAIMING PERFECTION!!! YOU ARE!!! So in fact, it is I who only needs to show one error in the KJV. Do you understand?

I have openly and honestly addressed every one of your points. So far, I dont think you have answered a single question fully.

Is what is spiritual not also factual? Is the ressurection ONLY a matter of faith, or is it a historical event? You seem to want us to throw out everything we KNOW is true and cling to that which YOU THINK is true. As protestants we acknowledge the "Priesthood of the Believer", which means that each christian is accountable to GOD and HIS WORD.

This is what we KNOW:
1. God inspired his word through the original authors.
2. Those documents are no longer existing.
3. Now we are left with copies, which no 2 agree 100%.
4. GOD CHOSE TO ALLOW THIS.

Now, you wish to cling to one english translation and claim that GOD wrote it. I disagree. Now I ask for proof, and you refuse.

Why should anyone take what you have to say serious? What makes you different from the Mormons? They claim to have the truth, yet refuse to provide any evidence, rather ask you to pray over it, and the Spirit will lead you to the truth. Forgive me if I reject this notion of yours along with theirs.

And I am sure you didnt mean to, but it has proven one thing: You do not seem to have any evidence nor thought of your own on this matter. You have been indoctrinated, and so far, you have not cared whether this doctrine is true. Do you care if KJVO is true or not? If it is not, will you lay it down?

EVEN if KJVO is not true, you can still use the KJV!!! It is still God's word, only then you will understand how HE chose to preserve his word, and not how Riplinger and Ruckman WISH he had.

And that is perfectly fine!

PLEASE, know what you are talking about BEFORE posting! The KJV introduced several changes from all other versions, and they did the very same thing you are doing! They screamed to high heaven "WHY DID YOU CHANGE GODS WORD"????

I ask again, HAVE YOU READ THE PREFACE TO THE KJV?

I cant educate you if you wont go back and answer my questions. You have no clue what you are talking about.....I dont even know where to begin. You are arguing things that even your authors wont argue, cuz they KNOW BETTER!

Please quote what Jesus had to say about the KJV. I am very interested.

How about just answering the questions first, then we can see if you were in fact wrong. If not, then I will be the one apologizing.

It appears to me that you are saying that it is OK to lie as long as you are defending the KJV. I ask you this: IF you have posted FALSE information, as a CHRISTIAN, what is your duty? Is it to set the record straight, or let the lie stand?

1. Who decided that the KJV was the final authority on what is and is not the "Word of God"? Please show scripture, prophecy, or some other means that God showed us the KJV was to be followed and all others rejected?

so far, your credibility is zero. I show your error, and you dont even check to see if you were in error! How can anyone trust that you care ONE BIT about truth?

So basically, you dont know, and wont look it up?
If I have assumed incorrectly, please expose my error.

1. Which one is the bully, sir? I have addressed every one of your points, and you have used almost nothing but LIES! NOT ONLY THAT, but even as a born again christian, you refuse to do your own research to find out if they are LIES! You dont even seem to care if you are spreading false information. You refuse to provide evidence for these claims, and you refuse to even answer very simple questions.

2. What tests did the KJV pass? It has gone through 4 revisions since 1611. The current KJVs even disagree with one another in a few places. Are you aware of this?

Please explain to me how the NASB, Geneva, and the Bishop's Bible are NOT God's Holy Word.

I havent even made a claim yet. I am too busy trying to sort through all your false information! I havent had time to blow a lot of anything!

1. Who made YOU the judge? Why is YOUR conviction, which you so far have offered NO facts, no scripture, and a load of false information, mean anything to me? Am I also bound to accept the Mormon's conviction, if he is unable to do anything different than what you have done?

Now, in the case of 1 John 5:7-8, the KJV goes against this 98%. Why do you not reject the KJV for doing this?

In Revelation 17:8, the KJV goes against 100% of the evidence(thats right, there is not a single manuscript or church father quotation or lexicon which agrees with the KJV). Why do you not reject the KJV in this verse?

There are more, but I must see how you respond to these 2, or if you even respond, before any others matter.

HEY, kinda like the KJV is in the above 2 references, right?

have a blessed day! This time, try and answer my post point by point, that way, we can have some honest dialogue. It may take more time, but you may actually learn something!

 

Hebrews 5:11-14 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
A Public Domain Bible KJV at Zondervan Zondervan

11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Its funny you bring this up, because it is speaking directly to you.

Would you call someone MATURE who had to resort to copying others work, making false claims, refusing to check their sources, willfully ignoring their errors, and refusing to engage in honest discussion, all in order to try and make a point?

Perhaps God led you to this passage for a reason, brother. I pray you truely consider it before moving forward in this discussion.

BTW, FYI.....I am one of the youngest members here. If your argument cant hold water against ME, you wont last 5 seconds with Cassidy, Roby, Scott, or any of the moderators. They have been researching bible history since I was in diapers.

 

William,

So you are not going to address my concerns, but rather just a few drive by accusations?

You have made the same mistake as the Mormons. You have made claims, and then when you are questioned, you refuse to defend your claims.

Jesus did NOT do this. His life was the proof, he performed many miracles, and everything he said would happen, did. He was exactly what he said he was.

Now you come along, making big claims about God's word, and you have no proof, no evidence, and worse, wont even allow yourself to be questioned by honest people. When Nicodemus came to Jesus, earnestly seeking, Jesus explained himself to him in a way that he had to understand. Here you are, claiming to have truth, and refusing to explain it!! Neither Paul, Peter, John, nor any of the apostles used this tactic. They wrote down what they had seen and heard, named names, and provided evidence that anyone could check.

Why are you allergic to honest discussion?