Christians can miss the kingdom, and go to hell for 1,000 years

Hi,

I have been shown something that I strongly believe to be true, and I feel you all need to hear it, too. However, you will probably never have heard it before, and will probably consider it heresy. But before condemning me, I ask that you prayerfully look up and consider the scriptures I present. My position assumes that Christ will return to reign on earth for 1,000 years, but is EXTREMELY controversial independently of this, and will therefore probably provoke a large number of responses. I THEREFORE ASK THAT NOBODY TRIES TO ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM IN THIS THREAD, AND HEARBY REQUEST THAT THE MODERATORS DELETE ANY POST THAT DOES. PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD IF YOU WANT ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM ITSELF. Thank you so much! Well, I'll try to keep it as short as possible...

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Jesus will one day return to judge (e.g. Matthew 16:27). When he does, all Christians will stand before the judgment seat of Christ (JSOC):

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;"(2 Cor 5:10-11a)

Notice that this judgment is according to works - "that he hath done" - and can be "bad". So bad, in fact, that it gave Paul "the terror of the Lord". Now why would Paul be terrified of this judgement if the worst that could happen was for him to miss rewards? No, I contend that we should be terrified because God can punish us here. (See also, e.g. 1 Cor 3:11-17, 9:24-27, Heb 10:23-31, James 2:12-13,24, 1 Peter 4:15-18).

Of course, many teach that a saved person can never be punished - Christ took the punishment we desrve. This is true as far as eternal salvation is concerned. If we simply believe that Jesus' death is the only way to put us right with God, then we are guarenteed a ressurection on the last day to live with God for all eternity; and we can never lose this (e.g. John 6:37-40). However, God can punish Christians for disobedience before that time:

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." (Rev 3:19. See also Acts 5:1-11, 1 Cor 11:27-32 and Heb 12:5-11.)

If he can punish us in this life, why not at the JSOC? (see 1 Tim 5:25).

After JSOC, Jesus will set up rule on earth for 1,000 years. Some people will rule with him:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."(Rev 20:4-6)

So, who are these people? I contend that they are the people whose works were found worthy at JSOC. This first ressurection is a conditional reward (see, e.g. Phil 3:10-11, Heb 11:35). Entrance and reign in this kingdom is conditional not just upon being saved (John 3:3), but upon suffering for Christ's sake (e.g. Mat 5:20, 2 Tim 2:12), bringing forth fruit (e.g Mat 21:43, Mark 4:11&20), not having/trusting riches (e.g. Mark 10:23&24, Luke 6:20), being devoted to God (Luke 9:61&62), forgiving others (e.g. Mat 6:14&15, 18:21-35), etc. In fact, it is probably best summed up:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Mat 7:21. See also, e.g. 1 Cor 6:9&10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-7, etc.)

So, what becomes of those who are not found worthy of kingdom reign? Answer: they experience terror at the judgement seat, and are cast into the underworld of hell. Jesus warned the saved apostle, John:

"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:47&48. See verses 40-50, and also Mat 5:22, 29&30)

This would be a poitless warning if John could never miss the kingdom and go to hell! In fact, Jesus told us that the fact that God could cast us into hell was the very reason to fear him!

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."(Luke 12:4&5. See also Mat 10:28)

However, when the 1,000 years are finished, all the dead will come out of hell to be judged before the Great White Throne (GWT) of God, and all non-Christians cast into the lake of fire to be punished for all eternity:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:13&15)

However, all the Christians who were being punished there will be raised up to live with God in the new Heaven and New Earth for all infinity, and God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. (e.g. John 6:39&40, Rev 21:1-4) This is the free gift guarenteed by our acceptance of Jesus' death for us. However, we can certainly be punished before then!
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Well, sorry that was so long. If anyone is interested further, you can send me an e-mail and I'll send you a more thorough article about it. There are also many good articles on www.kingdombaptist.org , as well as the chance to order an excellent book on the subject; "The Rod: will God Spare it?" by Pastor Joey Faust. Well, thanks for reading,

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

I have just added a supplamentary post in the history section in order to prove that this is not me just coming up with a brand new idea! It is at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000232

 

Hey, I would appreciate it if you guys would not turn this into a KJVO discussion or about any particular church! My purpose in posting the link was to tell you that there were some good articles there on THIS SUBJECT, and show you where a book about it can be bought (it IS a good book; I own several copies). I would also point out that many of the people who have taught this doctrine in the past were certainly NOT KJVO. In fact, I have an article written by G.H. Lang (who believed this idea) saying how superior the Revised Version was (in his opinion) to the KJV.

[ March 04, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Bartholomew ]

 

Thanks Bart! It's good to find someone with an open mind. Yes, I am sure John was a believer at this point. Look verses 38-41 of that chapter:

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."

Notice that John is both said to be on Jesus' side, and to "belong to Christ". I find it difficult to believe that he was anything less than a believer. Consequently, the warning of his missing the kingdom and going to hell can not be dismissed as not having any application to us.

 

Hi Kate B,
Perhaps nothing I can say can change your mind, but I suggest you have a look in your Bible to see if it really DOES teach that Jesus death means we can't go to hell. The most ferociously defended man-made traditions are held because people think that what they've always assumed must be true. Still, good to hear your opinion..

 

Why such rejection to think? I posted many verses up there in support (I could have posted many more, particularly from Jesus' parables). Why do you have no patience with me? And why don't you look at that link to the other discussion I have up there (though unfortunately that thread got closed down). Rather than just assuming this is a new teaching, just because you've never heard it before, why not at least ask if this is new? No, it is not - it was in fact taught back to the earliest days of the church (not to mention throughout the Bible).

 

I agree.

This is true - it is true regarding the the infinite price God demands for sin. This price is finally demanded on the last day, at the Great White Throne. However, this does NOT mean that Christians can not face punishment BEFORE that time.

True. But why not read further on in the chapter?

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people." (Heb 10:26-30)

He was CONFIDENT. It doesn't say he knew it for sure.

Notice the "MAY BE".

If this is so, then how come Christians are punished now? Punishment isn't just your body being attacked whilst you, the person, have nothing to worry about. Sickness hurts the PERSON. Besides, how can something be punished without the one who committed to crime being punished? How can a murder be punished without punishing the murderer??? But even if you are correct, then if a PERSON can be tormented in fire in this life without any biblical principle being violated, that PERSON can also be tormented in fire during the millennium.

None of those verses even suggests that ALL Christians will have bodies that cannot be punished when they stand before the judgement seat.

Well, thanks for your response, Pastor. Why not have a look at the passages I referenced in the first post? If my interpretation of them is wrong, please tell my why. However, as it stands, I appear to have a great many verses in my support.

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

Hi Charlotte,

I mostly agree with you. At the Great White Throne, all Christians will be judged worthy (by the blood of Jesus) to be raised to live forever in bliss with God. But at least some of these will have come out of hell (Rev 20:13). It is before this time, during the millennium, that some will have been in hell as punishment for disobedience to God in this life. They will have been punished "with the unbelievers":

The lord of that [disobedient] servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.(Luke 12:46&47)

As for the second death: no, Christians will not be cast in there on the last day to be punished for all infinity. However, does this mean it can have no "power" over the believer? Could this "power" (Rev 20:6) not be the same as being "hurt of the second death" (Rev.2:11)? The above quote from Luke had two stages of punishment: cutting in sunder, and then giving his portion with the unbelievers. I suggest that this "power" over or "hurting" of Christians may well be accomplished at the judgement seat (1 Cor 3:15, Heb 10:27, 12:28-29).

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew