Bartholomew
New Member
Hi,
I have been shown something that I strongly believe to be true, and I feel you all need to hear it, too. However, you will probably never have heard it before, and will probably consider it heresy. But before condemning me, I ask that you prayerfully look up and consider the scriptures I present. My position assumes that Christ will return to reign on earth for 1,000 years, but is EXTREMELY controversial independently of this, and will therefore probably provoke a large number of responses. I THEREFORE ASK THAT NOBODY TRIES TO ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM IN THIS THREAD, AND HEARBY REQUEST THAT THE MODERATORS DELETE ANY POST THAT DOES. PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD IF YOU WANT ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM ITSELF. Thank you so much!
Well, I'll try to keep it as short as possible...
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Jesus will one day return to judge (e.g. Matthew 16:27). When he does, all Christians will stand before the judgment seat of Christ (JSOC):
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;"(2 Cor 5:10-11a)
Notice that this judgment is according to works - "that he hath done" - and can be "bad". So bad, in fact, that it gave Paul "the terror of the Lord". Now why would Paul be terrified of this judgement if the worst that could happen was for him to miss rewards? No, I contend that we should be terrified because God can punish us here. (See also, e.g. 1 Cor 3:11-17, 9:24-27, Heb 10:23-31, James 2:12-13,24, 1 Peter 4:15-18).
Of course, many teach that a saved person can never be punished - Christ took the punishment we desrve. This is true as far as eternal salvation is concerned. If we simply believe that Jesus' death is the only way to put us right with God, then we are guarenteed a ressurection on the last day to live with God for all eternity; and we can never lose this (e.g. John 6:37-40). However, God can punish Christians for disobedience before that time:
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." (Rev 3:19. See also Acts 5:1-11, 1 Cor 11:27-32 and Heb 12:5-11.)
If he can punish us in this life, why not at the JSOC? (see 1 Tim 5:25).
After JSOC, Jesus will set up rule on earth for 1,000 years. Some people will rule with him:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."(Rev 20:4-6)
So, who are these people? I contend that they are the people whose works were found worthy at JSOC. This first ressurection is a conditional reward (see, e.g. Phil 3:10-11, Heb 11:35). Entrance and reign in this kingdom is conditional not just upon being saved (John 3:3), but upon suffering for Christ's sake (e.g. Mat 5:20, 2 Tim 2:12), bringing forth fruit (e.g Mat 21:43, Mark 4:11&20), not having/trusting riches (e.g. Mark 10:23&24, Luke 6:20), being devoted to God (Luke 9:61&62), forgiving others (e.g. Mat 6:14&15, 18:21-35), etc. In fact, it is probably best summed up:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Mat 7:21. See also, e.g. 1 Cor 6:9&10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-7, etc.)
So, what becomes of those who are not found worthy of kingdom reign? Answer: they experience terror at the judgement seat, and are cast into the underworld of hell. Jesus warned the saved apostle, John:
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:47&48. See verses 40-50, and also Mat 5:22, 29&30)
This would be a poitless warning if John could never miss the kingdom and go to hell! In fact, Jesus told us that the fact that God could cast us into hell was the very reason to fear him!
"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."(Luke 12:4&5. See also Mat 10:28)
However, when the 1,000 years are finished, all the dead will come out of hell to be judged before the Great White Throne (GWT) of God, and all non-Christians cast into the lake of fire to be punished for all eternity:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:13&15)
However, all the Christians who were being punished there will be raised up to live with God in the new Heaven and New Earth for all infinity, and God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. (e.g. John 6:39&40, Rev 21:1-4) This is the free gift guarenteed by our acceptance of Jesus' death for us. However, we can certainly be punished before then!
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Well, sorry that was so long.
If anyone is interested further, you can send me an e-mail and I'll send you a more thorough article about it. There are also many good articles on www.kingdombaptist.org , as well as the chance to order an excellent book on the subject; "The Rod: will God Spare it?" by Pastor Joey Faust. Well, thanks for reading,
Your friend and brother,
Bartholomew
I have been shown something that I strongly believe to be true, and I feel you all need to hear it, too. However, you will probably never have heard it before, and will probably consider it heresy. But before condemning me, I ask that you prayerfully look up and consider the scriptures I present. My position assumes that Christ will return to reign on earth for 1,000 years, but is EXTREMELY controversial independently of this, and will therefore probably provoke a large number of responses. I THEREFORE ASK THAT NOBODY TRIES TO ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM IN THIS THREAD, AND HEARBY REQUEST THAT THE MODERATORS DELETE ANY POST THAT DOES. PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD IF YOU WANT ARGUE AGAINST PREMILLENNIALISM ITSELF. Thank you so much!
---
Jesus will one day return to judge (e.g. Matthew 16:27). When he does, all Christians will stand before the judgment seat of Christ (JSOC):
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;"(2 Cor 5:10-11a)
Notice that this judgment is according to works - "that he hath done" - and can be "bad". So bad, in fact, that it gave Paul "the terror of the Lord". Now why would Paul be terrified of this judgement if the worst that could happen was for him to miss rewards? No, I contend that we should be terrified because God can punish us here. (See also, e.g. 1 Cor 3:11-17, 9:24-27, Heb 10:23-31, James 2:12-13,24, 1 Peter 4:15-18).
Of course, many teach that a saved person can never be punished - Christ took the punishment we desrve. This is true as far as eternal salvation is concerned. If we simply believe that Jesus' death is the only way to put us right with God, then we are guarenteed a ressurection on the last day to live with God for all eternity; and we can never lose this (e.g. John 6:37-40). However, God can punish Christians for disobedience before that time:
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." (Rev 3:19. See also Acts 5:1-11, 1 Cor 11:27-32 and Heb 12:5-11.)
If he can punish us in this life, why not at the JSOC? (see 1 Tim 5:25).
After JSOC, Jesus will set up rule on earth for 1,000 years. Some people will rule with him:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."(Rev 20:4-6)
So, who are these people? I contend that they are the people whose works were found worthy at JSOC. This first ressurection is a conditional reward (see, e.g. Phil 3:10-11, Heb 11:35). Entrance and reign in this kingdom is conditional not just upon being saved (John 3:3), but upon suffering for Christ's sake (e.g. Mat 5:20, 2 Tim 2:12), bringing forth fruit (e.g Mat 21:43, Mark 4:11&20), not having/trusting riches (e.g. Mark 10:23&24, Luke 6:20), being devoted to God (Luke 9:61&62), forgiving others (e.g. Mat 6:14&15, 18:21-35), etc. In fact, it is probably best summed up:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Mat 7:21. See also, e.g. 1 Cor 6:9&10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-7, etc.)
So, what becomes of those who are not found worthy of kingdom reign? Answer: they experience terror at the judgement seat, and are cast into the underworld of hell. Jesus warned the saved apostle, John:
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:47&48. See verses 40-50, and also Mat 5:22, 29&30)
This would be a poitless warning if John could never miss the kingdom and go to hell! In fact, Jesus told us that the fact that God could cast us into hell was the very reason to fear him!
"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."(Luke 12:4&5. See also Mat 10:28)
However, when the 1,000 years are finished, all the dead will come out of hell to be judged before the Great White Throne (GWT) of God, and all non-Christians cast into the lake of fire to be punished for all eternity:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:13&15)
However, all the Christians who were being punished there will be raised up to live with God in the new Heaven and New Earth for all infinity, and God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. (e.g. John 6:39&40, Rev 21:1-4) This is the free gift guarenteed by our acceptance of Jesus' death for us. However, we can certainly be punished before then!
---
Well, sorry that was so long.
Your friend and brother,
Bartholomew
