Christians can miss the kingdom, and go to hell for 1,000 years

Hi Laurenda,

I don't think any Christian will be punished at the Great White Throne judgement; but I do think we can be punished 1000 years before this, at the judgement seat of Christ. Sorry for being confusing - I didn't want to write very much in the first post because people often don't read long posts on here. However, if you send me an e-mail I can send you an essay I wrote to properly explain it without assuming any prior knowledge.

 

Hi, New Man!

Thanks for the post.

You're exactly right about James! So often people try to twist his words to mean it is by faith alone, but James says absolutely catagorically it is not. However, Jesus makes it plain that "just believing" is all you have to do to be saved! (e.g. John 1:12, 3:15, 3:16, 3:18, 3:36, 5:24, 6:35, 6:40, 6:47, 11:26, 20:31) How do we resolve this? Answer: look at the context! Verses 12 and 13 of that chapter in James:

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment."

The "justification" James is talking about is justification at the judgement seat of Christ - when Christians are judged for what they did on earth. Those who are justified here are rewarded with reign in the millennial kingdom. Those who are not justified are cast into hell. However, when the kingdom has run its course, the dead will come out of hell (Rev. 20:13), and all those who are Christians (i.e. who believed in Jesus) will be raised up to live with God forever. Just believing justifies you in respect to eternal salvation, and guarentees a ressurection to life on the last day (John 6:40). However, doing good works and believing justifies you in respect to being rewarded 1000 years before this.
You also said of Matthew 25:41-46

This is true. That chapter is three parables, each with a similar message, and look how Jesus begins them:

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom." (verse 1)
"For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods." (verse 14)
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" (verse 31)

All three parables about what happens when Jesus returns to reign in his millennial kingdom. They are NOT about salvation in all eternity, judged at the Great White Throne judgement, for that occurs 1000 years later. The emphasis is works because without them no Christian can enter the kingdom.

And finally, I think some have got the wrong impression: I am NOT advocating salvation by works! Eternal salvation is by believing on Jesus; but reward and punishment in the millennial kingdom is by faith AND works!

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

Hello Bill

Yes. Does that make it wrong? No. Firstly, I must point out that it is actually quite different, too: Rome's purgatory is where the soul goes straight after death; whereas this is a teaching about where the person goes during the millennial kingdom (which Catholics reject). But more fundamentally, there is REDEEMING VALUE in purgatory. Jesus' suffering isn't enough to give you eternal salvation: you must add to this by your own suffering. However, my position adds NO redeeming value to suffering in hell: it is simply punishment! Just like the way God punishes people in this life: they're already saved, but can be punished for disobeying him.

I'd ask that you don't reject this just because it sounds similar to Rome's old doctrine of purgatory (I say "old" because there seems to be a move away from it by at least some Catholics). Rome didn't just wake up one day and invent the idea: they simply perverted it from the true doctrine I'm telling you about now (it can be traced right back to the early church). Just as we don't get rid of the Lord's Supper because Rome perverted it and added redeeming value to it, so let's not reject millennial punishment in hell because Rome perverted it and added redeeming value to it. To refuse to believe this doctrine just because it sounds similar to something the Roman Catholics teach is to be guilty of elevating our own baptist tradition above the Bible: the very thing we attack Rome for.

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

If you read my first post, you'll find I mentioned those verses myself! They actually back up what I'm saying completely. Here are verses 10-17:

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Yes, all these Christians will be saved; some will be rewarded, but others punished when God sends his fire. We should have "terror of the Lord" becuase of the judgement seat.

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

But someone on a "judgement seat" would give punishments as well as rewards - Pilate sat on a judgement seat, but he didn't just restrain rewards from Jesus!!! (Mat 27:19, John 19:13). Besides, why should we be terrified of God because of the judgement seat?

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;" (2 Cor 5:10&11)

 

Praise God for your stand, brother! BTW - why do you think this thread hasn't attracted much attention? People come, make a point, they go and don't return... Do you think they are not interested? Or is it because the view that Christians can't go to hell is really based on tradition and sentiment? (I'm meaning to be disparraging - to anyone who is interested, I'd love to discuss this further.)

 

Would you like to document this, brother? I mean, if I am being heretical, surely you should show me why, so I will stop teaching this heresy? Why are people so quick just to throw the idea out, and yet so slow to engage it???

 

Hi Rufus

Nope, I was quoting this true doctrine because you need to hear it (and because someone asked me to). But if it really is heretical, why not show me? BTW - just because it may fly in the face of what we have always been led to believe, that doesn't make it wrong. We can't rely on tradition; not even baptist tradition.