Regeneration or Conversion?

Can anyone see how that God knows the heart of the lost? How this is shown in the visitation of Adam; does the Bible say that Adam called on God and that he came to him and that Adam repented and that God granted forgiveness? NO. The Bible says of the man that he saw his nakedness and was ashamed, he tried to cover this with his own hands and it was futile, he hid from God when he heard his voice, nowhere does it say that the first man asked God to forgive him, but we do see God teaching the first man, we do see the first man hearing God's word and we do know that he believed because he taught his sons the proper way of approaching the Throne of Grace.

Does anyone else see this picture? We can expound on it on and on and on from the Sovereign Grace perspective, but from the perspective of man having a 'free-will' how far can we go? To the covering made by adam and one with seams to rip and tear, one made of natural material that would rot and fade away, the garment given to adam in the picture of the slain substitute, what does it speak to us of? Of that Garment provided by the God of Grace, by his will the garment is seamless, the garment is approved of his hand to cover man's nakedness, the garment is now manifested in the face of Jesus Christ; did adam believe, the fact that he taught his children is a 'fruit of the Spirit' is it not?

Everywhere preachers are crying out for God's people to stand in the gaps, but nowhere are they seeming to point them to those gaps; Everywhere they are looking for quick 10-15 minute sermons with wise catch phrases, to produce lasting and immortal fame among men; but they will not proclaim the word of God when he gives them utterance, nor keep their mouths shut when he has not. But then they will spend 30-45 minutes begging and pleading the lost to come to the altar of mercy, when they have not even been brought to the altar of judgement, when the covering provided by man has not even been torn away, when they have not even seen the nakedness by which they stand before God, they expect all to step forward under his own power to be covered, when the word sin will not even be mentioned but is discarded for a more socially acceptable term, when the Blood of the Lamb of God will not even be spoken of because of fear of frightening the children, if they are even in the assembly at all and have not yet been removed to a 'nursery' far away from the preaching and teaching of God's word.

When one will open his mouth because of the fire in his bones they cry that he is judgemental and trying to ursurp the place of God. When one will open his mouth and talk incessantly about unbiblical principles and doctrines that permit men to remain in thier lost condition for lack of conviction men applaud him and beg him to continue in his speech, when men come in and preach the righteousness of God, they brand him unlearned, angry and contentious and bid him close his mouth, when if they knew God they would know he cannot close his mouth when God has opened it, and cannot open it when God has closed it. They teach that men are able to do what ever they please, the doctrine of the church is of no importance, they speak of the spilling of the Blood rather than the shedding or the pouring, anything that men will not learn it was intentional, but much more an after thought, anything that men may not have to inspect thier own hearts, that thier consciences can become seared through with a hot iron that they may continue to support the church and the ministry, yet speak evil of the poor and weak in thier communities; rather they cry unto the Lord:

4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

We are in that day; the seven women are representative of the churches the one they do take a hold of is the husband, for he is one, and one man; the redeemer, but they will have none of his bread, none of his covering garments, but only the desire to be called by his name that their reproach may be taken away, see how they disdain his bread, that which came down from the father, see how they discard his garment and favor that given to them of man, see how they desire his name that their reproach in this world would be removed, yet the spiritual things that are better are held in contempt? Can we no longer discern scripture because we fear the hurtful words of those who disagree with us? Can we no longer preach from the conviction of the heart what the Word of God teaches because we have made truth to be nonexistent, because we have in our lusts of the flesh entered back into the desire of this world and now we only want to hear the kind sweet things of God, but desire the 'doctrine' which will cut the sinner to the bone (who is the same as all others) for we are yet sinners, our difference is we are now not among the lost, but our flesh is still under the curse, yea, we have no stomach to eat of his bread, we have no taste to wear his apparel, but we desire his name. This is enough, when the Lord brings the showers they pour, and the earth drinks thereof; all of life is sustained when he witholds the shower, the earth becomes hard, brittle, dry and unfruitful.


Bro. Dallas

[ May 04, 2003, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans, write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"

The context of Rev. 3.20 prevents the interpretation that Christ is visiting the heart's door does injustice to the plain sense of the scripture. The only way it can be offered is by one who wishes to maintain a theory. The message is plainly to the angel of the 'church' nothing is even of the ministering spirit that would have been sent forth as a ministering spirit to an individual that would be an heir of salvation, so this angel is either the pastor of the church, the messenger of God or is in like fashion performing a ministeration to the church, the body of believers assembled in Laodicea. In this case, it is even particular to the church in Laodicea and not to Sardis, Philadelphia, etc. though because of 2 Tim. 3.16 it is profitable to ourselves.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot."

Here the works of the church is brought into view; those works which are laid down as the duty of the church; that of guarding the doctrine, aiding the poor, the widow, the fatherless, supporting the truth of the doctrines as they were once delivered to the saints; if in this case we make vs. 15 particular to the 'angel' and this be an ministering spirit sent forth to the church, then we see Christ admonishing the angel and the message is particular to the church, so that can be discarded. Though we can make this particular to the pastor in Laodicea, for he has a work commissioned to him as well and that is to 'take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.' To this one is given the same to guard that which is brought into the church, to serve the church, to humble himself in the presence of God, before his people and to preach the unadulterated word fearing no man, but God alone.

Christ says that he would they were cold or hot; but they (the church, or the pastor, or both) have become lukewarm, they have let things slide, they have left off discipline because somebody was offended, they have practiced discipline, but shown favortism, they have received false doctrine, they have shunned the preaching and teaching of the whole council of God, they have courted the approval of man, doubting the faithfulness of God in temporal matters and have straddled the fence, unable to cross over into the pasture and feed upon the sweet word of God in truth for fear of losing favor with man, yet unable to remain in the world because they have tasted this good word of God. They remain on the fence and will lose the power of their witness and will become no more than tinkling brass, a trumpet with no distinguishing sound, whereby when it is blown men know not to go to battle, retreat, revelee, taps, or mess, the trumpeteer and the hearers are unable to distinguish it and those that would follow that sound do not recognize it as true. This follows vs. 16:

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

So much is that these have left off publishing the Gospel of the Son of God and have entertained the world at their table rather than the Holy Spirit, that Spirit of leadership is withdrawn from them, they degenerating to this point do not even recognize its absence.

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind and naked:"

vs. 16 says So then because thou art lukewarm, and vs. 17 picks up here and outlines the attitude the church has fallen into; no longer is Christ her husband, no longer do they hold him to be their head, they have fallen from their place of liberty as the beloved of the husbandman and have declared themselves to be rich, increased with goods, and in need of nothing, for they have substituted worldly means for the love of their head; they have degenerated so far that they do not know they are wretched, they see thier own beauty and project that to the world rather than the beauty of Christ and him crucified, they have left off with the words of sound doctrine in favor of picking up words of wisdom; they do not know they are miserable, the growth in the world hides this truth from them, how can they see it when folks are gathering all around, they have substituted the surety of Christ for the pleasure of this world and no not the misery they lay in for this; they declare they are rich, but they are poor in Spiritual power, they are on the outside clean, bright and fanciful, something of a delicacy but the inside is hollow and bear, with barren lands that have long since not been plowed, now overgrown in saw-briers and thorns; they are blind because they have discontinued to walk in the light of his word he who has begotten them, they have found the light of the world to be more of interest to them like a moth to a flame they scurry to it, yet they see not the loss of the ability to discern the spiritual things, and finally they are naked, because they are destitute of the continual blessing of the covering of God, that which would hedge about them and protect them from the fiery darts of the adversary; they have been so long in their nakedness that they are unable to hold forth the garment of righteousness found in Christ;

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve; that thou mayest see."

Here is the counsel of the husbandman that his beloved would buy of himself alone gold that is tried in the fire of God's wrath and has answered to the fire of his justice; no greater gold can be purchased by the beloved wife than that which can make her truly rich in this world and that to come, that gold which has for its greatest foundation the doctrines of Christ, his diety, the redemption found in him, the grace and truth which came by him who by himself purged us of our sins and sat down at the right hand of the Father, this gold alone makes the church rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; for this shame is not hidden from the Lord, neither does it hide itself from the world who is most ready to recognize in the church of God hypocrisy; but that it not appear in the day of his coming that this body can be offered to him in white raiments clothed as the bride she is; and for the anointment of the eye that the continual need of these things to be provided at his hand and his alone can be seen and known and taught in the church; that as his wife she is subject to him and she is not her own, even as he has loved her and made himself subject to her counting it not robbery to be equal to God, but humbling himself that he may exalt her; and for the joy set before him though despising the cross he poured himself out on the altar of God an offering of sweet savor unto God on her behalf; for if she is blind and cannot see these things, how is she to publish them to the world.

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent."

For his great love with which he loves her he rebukes her, not in that he would abuse her, but that he would open the wound she has made between them and that he would chasten her, thus that he is not unable to see what is necessary to bring her to repentance; and that he would encourage her to zealously repent knowing that his goodness also leads her to repentance, that she would be moved by his rebuke, his chastisement, and yet his love, to return unto him and the zealous observance of his law; for now even she is under the law of grace and of the spirit of grace and in Godly sorrow she can find her place again at his side.

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Up to here we have shown how that this verse in context is speaking to the church. Then it is shown that this verse has no place in the doctrine of salvation, but that it must remain in line with that to which it is most readily connected.

Observe, here our Lord does make the call more open and does make it to 'any' man, but is this to any man who is outside the church, to whom Christ would entrust to come into this precious body and proclaim his word? no. It is speaking particularly of 'any' man who is by being made a partaker of that heavenly calling and by profession and baptism is in this body. I say it can be the pastor, or any man who is a scriptural member. Here Christ desires to enter into this body and to fellowship with this body at his table, yet he calls on one who is there and has an interest there who is moved by the Spirit to raise up his voice there and thereby renew the fellowship with their Lord. It is to this one that is promised that Christ will particularly fellowship, that in the midst of his cry he shall be strengthened in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, that he would be hardened against the face of men, that he would be especially drawn by the Spirit of Grace to preach and to teach the word of God in truth declaring it out so that the call to this church to purchase these needful things of Christ and to shake off the bondage of this world into which she has ventured. It is to this one that this Grace is promised now and even in the world to come.

These are my thoughts on this, that this would find it's place in the midst of this debate is incomprehensible to me. That men would want to take the Word of God to the church and make it speak to those who are alien to the church is not agreeable to me, nor to the word of God that is recorded in connection with it.

Whether any receive this or not I do not know, I do not claim infallibility, and where the word of God will show me wrong, I will stand wrong and seek at the hands of my Lord forgiveness, otherwise, I will stand by what I have written and will say that whatsoever error is found herein that it be attributed to me and not the eternal Word.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Thanks for the encouragement brother Glen. I have not been shunning the board, so don't think anyone that I was running backward while I was speaking. Just had to preach by appointment at my home church this morning and thanks to whoever first mentioned Titus 2.11; the Lord provided through his Eternal Spirit a message on salvation, eternal and in time. God Bless all, I sincerely pray that the Lord has communed with each of your hearts in your worship of him as he has me on this day.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

John 3.19-21

This is what I had in mind; I suppose your post is saying that preconditioning is found here in these scripture?

Bro. Dallas

 

The confusion of Arminianism teaches that Jesus is speaking a message to the church, but in the middle of it he leaves off with his message and begins to speak to a lost person? This rips the passage of Rev. 3.20 right out of it's context. The message is to the church, to repent and return to fellowship with its head. Yes, regenerated saved, born again men are members of the church, do these men sometimes fall into sin personally? do they sometime let things come into the church that are not scriptural? is this sin? is this falling from fellowship with Christ? YES. Is Christ admonishing for some man in the church to stand for what is true and have the church repent and be restored? YES. Is Christ speaking to a lost person bidding him to open the door of his heart? NO. The word heart is not even in the passage. To force this interpretation on the passage is a strain that only a person seeking to glorify man could do in good conscience.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Originally posted by Yelsew:

I agree, it is the sin nature that predisposes (preconditions) man to not hear the Gospel except by the Will of God.

As far as the difficulty in a 'pulpit' minister in 'evangelizing' street people, if he is working where the Living God has prepared his work there is no difficulty, when God said my word shall not return unto me void, it is man that imagines this to always mean that souls shall be saved. Yet in such a case as you provide it could mean that they who serve God are obedient; and we forget that only those that are elected shall 'hear' and 'be saved' for it is to these that He sends forth into thier heart the Spirit, because they are his children, it is these who the Spirit beareth witness with their spirits that they are the children of God. What is it that causes a man to enter into a particular field, (section) of the world to preach the Gospel? What is it that keeps him there?

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Bro. Ray,

Consider this statement in view of what someone believing in the Sovereign Grace of God and Total depravity of the will of man. We do not deny the free-will of the saved person; but that prior to regeneration there is not an existence of free will in fallen man, this does not deny the presence of the will of man, but states that he is governed by his bondage to sin. Even in matters of religious ceremony he is blinded and convinces himself he is serving God rightly, but in these systems I have yet to read one who has acheived reconciliation eternal and complete whole as does the believer solely in the Righteousness of God found in Christ by God's Grace. All else is full of doubts, fears and tremblings, then builds into itself the need to work to obtain and hold that reconciliation.

Sovereign Grace is in line with Scripture because both declare that Salvation is by Grace alone, come who may, all who come do so for one reason, the drawing power of the Holy Spirit, all who believe do so because of the light of the truth of Jesus Christ revealed in their hearts by the Sovereign Grace of God.

Christ in Rev. 3.20 is dealing with one who has thus been dealt with and is now a partaker of that heavenly calling. He is not dealing with one who is said to be enmity against him, or one who is dead in trespasses and sins, the former has previously passed from death unto life; the former has yet to experience this, but this does not mean that he is not of the elect and shall exprience it in time by God's Grace.

Hope this helps.

(I only have two more exams and this term is over!) whew!!!!

Bro. Dallas