Mid America Baptist Theological Seminary

Rd,

What comprises the real world? I'm not sure I'm in it.

Bill

 

I have heard nothing but good things about the school. I considering going there, but finally decided on Midwestern for my MDiv and Southern for my DMin.

 

What I've heard is that MABTS is a good school. Liberals, of course, will think it too conservative, but the academics are well respected in my circles. I did PhD work at Southern with a couple of MABTS grads, and they certainly held their own.

The only negative things that I've heard is that (1) there was something of an anti-Calvinist agenda some years back, though I hear there is a Calvinist or two on faculty now. (2) Their evangelistic numbers posted in their quarterly magazine seem quite high, leading one to think that quick decisions are recorded instead of real conversions.

BTW, I have a friend who teaches NT there.

Blessings,
Bill

 

I received the D.Min. degree from MABTS. I am returning to America in July for stateside assignment (furlough), and I will start Ph.D. work in missiology at MABTS in August. It is a good fit for me because I am a three-pointer (TUP). I received the M.Div. degree from SWBTS, but I like the smaller size of MABTS. One thing that makes MABTS unique is the requirement to witness to an average of one person per week. Thus, MABTS grads should be very experienced in witnessing by the time they graduate. The witnessing requirement is a good accountability factor.

 

Don't waste your time on a school that only requires one to witness. It shouldn't be an academic requirement. How about making disciples? Jesus directly commanded that. How many schools train a person to make disciples?

 

If a person becomes a Christian, he has become a disciple. Matthew 28:19 makes it clear that we are to baptize disciples. Thus, if a Christian is witnessing in the biblical way, that Christian is making disciples.

 

I attended MABTS for semester ot 2 and was glad when i left. The report hour and wintessing requirements are making a bunch of liars out of people. I do think that their is a solid future ahead; but I wish they would drop these legalistic requirments. In fact I have president emeritus saying and admitting thew he was "somewhat of a legalist" ..I quit going sometime after that!

 

However, I now attend Midwestern and find a very distinct faculty here. This seminary has made a trmendous turn around and I am very excited about being here!

 

You are right in one way but wrong in another. Jesus commanded to go and make disciples. Evangelism is only the first part of making disciples. Disciples are much different than converts. If Jesus thought making disciples was equal to evangelism then why did he have His 12 disciples and train them? Why did He not only do evangelism them and leave them like we do when we fish and leave them to flop about on a rock. A disciple does not reproduce until he leads another to Christ and trains that person to make disciples.

If you read the website at http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm
you would have a hard time saying that many are making disciples.

 

Gb93433, I disagree with the following statement you made:

"Disciples are much different than converts."

I did look at the web site you referenced. The author had some nice things to say about Dawson Trotman. I am certainly a Trotman fan, having been involved in the Navigators 2:7 discipleship program. I disagree with the following statement from the web site:

"You can lead a soul to Christ in from 20 minutes to a couple of hours. But it takes from 20 weeks to a couple of years to get him on the road to maturity, victorious over the sins and the recurring problems that come along."

http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm

I believe that if a person is really a Christian, then he is a disciple. I don’t believe that a person can become a Christian and later become a disciple. A true convert is a disciple. A person is on the road to maturity at the moment he becomes a Christian. In the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20), Jesus said,

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (NASB)

Notice that we are to baptize disciples, not mere converts. The key verb is “make disciples” (matheteusate), and it is an aorist tense, active voice, imperative mood verb, indicating that it involves a command to do summarized action (punctiliar action) rather than continuing action. Of course, discipleship continues after a person becomes a disciple (the teaching in verse 20), but a person becomes a disciple at a point in time. Usually the aorist verb refers to action in the past, but the aorist imperative is different because a command is given with no consideration of past, present, or future time. The Greek scholar A.T. Robertson discussed the aorist imperative in his four-inch thick book on Greek grammar and pointed out the clarity of the imperative mood in comparison with the indicative mood:

"Here the distinction between the punctiliar (aorist) and the durative (present) is quite marked. Indeed Moulton (Prol., p. 129) holds that to get at “the essential character of aorist action, therefore, we must start with the other moods” than ind. It is easier, for the time element is absent."

Robertson, “A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research” (Nashville: Broadman Press, 1934), page 855.


Some people argue that in the Hebrew way of thinking the baptizing and teaching are the details that fill out the overview of going and making disciples, but their argument has not yet convinced me. In other words, they say that the baptizing and teaching together form the discipling. The obvious point, however, is that Scripture never suggests that there is a point after conversion when a person becomes a disciple. There are levels of spiritual growth mentioned—the spiritual baby (1 Corinthians 3:1) and the person who is “mature” (Hebrews 5:14). The same Greek verb used for “make disciples” in Matthew 28:19 is also used in Acts 14:21:

“And after they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch.” (NASB)

Thus, the making of disciples was intimately related with preaching the gospel. The same verb is also found in Matthew 13:52:

“And He said to them, ‘Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.'”

The Greek preposition before kingdom is “eis” which can mean “into” or “unto.” Robertson, however, pointed out some manuscript differences:

"In Mt. 13:52 MSS. vary between the mere locative te Basileia and en with locative and eis with accusative."

Robertson, page 521.

The Textus Receptus uses “eis”; and the Westcott-Hort text does not use “eis.” So, “eis” would seem to indicate movement into the kingdom when a person becomes a disciple. Robertson says:

"Here a scribe is made a learner to the kingdom."

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=mt&chapter=13&verse=52

In Luke 14:26-33 Jesus described disciples. He indicated that they were people who cared more about Him than their families or their lives. He also indicated that they were willing to take up the cross, follow Him, and give up everything for Him. This is summed up in our most recent Southern Baptist confession of faith, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message:

"Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour."


A person who has surrendered his life to Christ in repentance and faith is more than a convert; he is a disciple.

[ March 22, 2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: koreahog2005 ]

 

Don't waste your time on a school that only requires one to witness. It shouldn't be an academic requirement. How about making disciples? Jesus directly commanded that. How many schools train a person to make disciples? </font>[/QUOTE]IMHO, this seems rather like a shallow and biased assessment for one who is committed to the deeper verities of knowledge, scholarship and discipleship. It is all too easy to judge others. I did not attend MABTS but I do have some knowledge of the place. They have my sincere respect. There are some fine men and teachers there.

There are good academic institutions with little or no spiritual accountability and there are good academic schools that you call legalistic or shallow. Since you are making fast and furious judgments here, perhaps you could enlighten me on exactly how to achieve good spiritual accountability and academic credibility without being called legalistic or shallow. This balancing act seems to have been a besetting problem for Christian schools since that first Baptist seminary in Galilee. Now, please pontificate.

 

You are right in one way but wrong in another. Jesus commanded to go and make disciples. Evangelism is only the first part of making disciples. Disciples are much different than converts. If Jesus thought making disciples was equal to evangelism then why did he have His 12 disciples and train them? Why did He not only do evangelism them and leave them like we do when we fish and leave them to flop about on a rock. A disciple does not reproduce until he leads another to Christ and trains that person to make disciples.

If you read the website at http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm
you would have a hard time saying that many are making disciples. </font>[/QUOTE]Doing it daily. How about you?

 

Really? You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but there are over six billion people in the world with opinions on a variety of subjects. I wonder why you sound so bitter and angry (lots of strong angry words). You seem to have an ax to grind which may have biased your opinion. All the people that I have met from MABTS have been such kind, reasonable, meek, and gentle folks. Goodbye.