BJU and What they Teach vs. What they Do

I agree with the posters who argue that BJU should diversify the education of its divinity school faculty. BJ's views on separation have made the Bible department an anomaly in this regard.

If you look at the other departments you will see an impressive diversity of educational backgrounds. I only weigh in because this was an was an important factor to me in choosing a college, and I attended BJU. I didn't mind them being unaccredited, but I wanted to be sure I would get a good education. I was not disappointed.

Just as a sampling, some of my teachers were trained at Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago, Vanderbilt, Union Theological (!), UCLA, Oxford, UNC, The Sorbonne, Univ of Maryland, Emory, Berry College, and Virginia Tech. In other words, they come from top schools. I know of at least two faculty members who were Fulbright Scholars (or Rhodes Scholars, I always get those confused).

One irony about BJU is that despite the lack of diverse degrees in the Bible faculty, their grads have been well received in academia. They teach at big name seminaries like Dallas, Trinity Evangelical, Westminster, Gordon-Conwell, John Knox, Masters, and SBTS.

 

You are quite right about the diversity of graduate education in the other schools. I think the Bible faculty would be enhanced with the same diversity. That in no way means that the Bible faculty should not hold to BJ's doctrinal expectations. I am wondering because I simply do not know, how many seminaries such as the ones you mentioned have BJ PhD grads on their faculties? For instance, SBTS has a very good Hebrew prof on their faculty whose bachelor degree is from BJ, but his doctorate is from somewhere else.

Blessings,
Bill

 

I know that Dr. Robert L. Reymond at John Knox has a PhD from BJU.

Andy

 

Good Question, Bill. I don't know the answer, nor do I have the time to do the research right now, but I suspect that you are right. The majority of the BJ grads alluded to at other seminaries probably have terminal degrees from elsewhere.

I have come across a few faculty or commentary writers who went all the way through at BJ, but that is less common. (Some of the examples that readily come to mind have moved to the pastorate now.) In general, I would say that most people who go all the way to PhD at BJU stay ecclesiastically closer to home.

 

PB,

Thanks. I assumed that but wasn't sure.

Blessings,
Bill

 

Which is exactly my point about why they do what they do, whether it is right or wrong. There are very few places that can be trusted to turn out the kind of product that BJU wants. That, I think, is the issue to them. It does lead to a sort of theological inbreedin perhaps.

 

By not reporting such violations of the law you are still in effect supporting such a practice.

Too many Christians sit under the guise of serving God by not reporting such activity. The same thing happened to a friend of mine who was the registrar at a major seminary. As believers we must be the best example to the world. I also believe we should expect of ourselves to pay our workers the highest possible wage. As a youngster the Christians I worked for believed in this and so did I as an employer.

A theological school's ministry to be an example is no different than any other employer in the world who is a believer. When some of those students leave they will have had before them an example of a school which cheats the workers and violates the law. The Bible calls that hypocrisy.

 

No, Mazak has a PhD or something else (I forget) from a secular university. I think he got it before he was saved.

Also, I think Dr. Shumate got his doctorate from Harvard.

I honestly think that some people enjoy finding things wrong with any Christian institution. I have been at and around my whole life, and I'll probably be there (college/seminary) for at least 6 or 7 more years.

I just think that if you're just there to get an education, don't bother with politics, etc. you'll be fine.

There is another local church that is a great church, has a great college, highschool, etc. but I know first hand how rude and crude they can be when it comes to finances, paying teachers, etc.

 

Thanks, Spoudazo.

And yeah, Shumate did I believe. He was a lawyer for a while as well. Very intelligent man.

 

Obedience would have been to report them to the authorities. Isn't that what you were taught?

We must obey the authorities.

Ah, but loyalty comes before obedience.

Harvey, if you don't think you were laid off over this issue you are really misled. Your concern was seen as disloyalty. Therefore, you must be terminated.

I hope I'm not offending. But that's how BJU operates.

 

Paul33, do you have firsthand knowledge of recent practices at BJU? When were you last at Bob Jones? Since as far as I know you have no basis for these sweeping characterizations, you are bordering on defamation.

I agree that from the information Harvey gives it sounds like he was wronged. I am fairly familiar with the situation he is referring to. I believe that one person is primarily responsible for the problems he identified, although his name has not come up in this discussion. Dr. Bob and others do not realize the shortcuts this manager takes and thus highly trust him. He has managed to control the information that gets to Dr. Bob and if there is an issue such as Harvey's Dr. Bob trusts the manager's word.

Thankfully he is finally being replaced by a man of high character. I had his replacement as a teacher, and I remember the high standards he urged on us. If he and his neighbor barter labor (such as law mowing for car work) my teacher would estimate the value of the exchange and report the "earnings" on his taxes. This is what tax law calls for, but I have never met someone else as careful.

 

And how do you know this? Did you talk to someone who told you this?

The most offensive thing is that whenever a conversation about BJU comes up, you don't tell the truth, or comment on things that you don't know about. I have personally talked to you about this before. Unfortunately, you did not correct it then, as I recall. This type of attitude continues from you and it is unfortunate that you are letting personal bitterness get in the way.

BJU is certainly not a perfect place, but it deserves better than the nonsense that you too often spew.

There have been a lot of complaints here, all of them veiled to the point to where they are virtually unindentifiable. I know people who have been at BJU for close to a half a century and have never had a complaint about how the university has treated them or others. The fact that some people are disgruntled may say more about them than it does the school. In an institution or organization of any size, there will always be those who abuse power, and there will always be those who are malcontents. Don't let them sway your opinion.

 

That is not in accordance with what scripture teaches. Our only absoolute obedience is to Christ.

 

BJU must be warned they are the problem.

Are you not supporting the very thing you are criticizing? What gives any college or univeresity the right to break the law? I would send them a letter and give them a time table telling them if something is not done you will report it to the authoritites. By not doing so you are encouraging their lack of submission to authority.You have encouraged them to become gods to themselves.

BJU has no right to supersede the law with their own rules.

By warning them you may spare others from the shame of associating with an institution of such practice.

 

Harvey, I was not referring to you in any sense as being disgruntled. I might in fact know you. My point was specifically directed towards a person with a history of these kinds of comments in here, and towards the general complaints. I have no problem with legitimate issues, though some legitimate issues are silly ones. But again, not knowing specifics, no one here is qualified to comment on them (except you to whom this allegedly happened). I don't doubt your word. I don't need to see your notebooks.

But more than all of that, I question the usefulness of such discussion here. You complain that BJU didn't follow certain laws, so you take it upon yourself to come in here and gossip about it, with no one from the university to give their side, and you do it with a group of people who have absolutely no way to address the issue. Those actions on your part are questionable (at best). When you have a problem, you should talk to people who can address it, not to those who can't. And then you leave it there. Don't mistake me for defending BJU. But don't miss the point: You came in here, started what is essentially a rumor since no one can verify it. More importantly, you aired dirty laundry about someone unnamed (a boss whom the top brass doesn't know his actions) and you aired this dirty laundry to a group of people with nothing at stake who cannot do anything. Explain to me how that is not sinful gossip.