Contemporary worship

Our Church uses both Hymnal and Contemporary favoites. I am just as blessed by the Hymns as I am the contemporary favorites. Sometimes critics focus too much on the style of the music than the real meaning of the words. Gods word says to make a joyful noise unto the Lord! it doesn't say that we have to use just hymnals or just contemporary songs. It doesn't say and we are going to find that a lot of the things we "battled" on earth weren't worth the battle. God can use the Contemporary Artist as well as the Hymn writer to reach a lost soul. Isn't that what matters the most any way??

Originally posted by Roguelet:
Rock and Roll a Ghetto term used by Allen Fread and Chuck Berry meaning having sexual intercouse in the back seat of a car while it was moving.

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Hmm. That must mean someone has really long arms or they're taking a cab.

Originally posted by le bel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NiteShift:
Sure have. Though I don't think Oak Ridge Boys ever went pop or got on MTV.

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Oh, I see, if they play your video on MTV you have compromised your testimony and sold out to the world, but if they play your video on CMT you're still okay? Way to be consistent. </font>[/QUOTE]Have you seen MTV? I mean both are secular, but both are on different plains. I was partially raised on MTV by my liberal mother and a little CMT by my father; one did a lot more damage than the other. </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, let's just check out what's included in this weeks top 20 CMT songs.
#1 Honky Tonk Badonkadonk (if I printed the lyrics to this one they would be immediately deleted by a moderator

#4 Billy's got his beer goggles on

#8 Good as I once was (If you haven't seen the video it's basically one huge barroom free-for-all)

#14 Tequilla makes her clothes fall off

#19 Redneck yacht club. (about drinking and partying)

So yeah, I see where you're coming from. The themes of sex, substance abuse, and low morals are so much better on CMT are much more wholesome than what is on MTV.

Something that always strikes me as funny, is when you listen to CMT and then listen to a Gaither's Homecoming Video, it pretty much sounds the same. So why aren't all the people who are getting so bent out of shape over worldly music speaking out against that Godless Southern Gospel stuff????

LMBO, I don't listen to CMT. I did when I was what, 15, times have changed since then. But, CMT doesn't quite have the agenda that say BET, MTV, VH1 has. So, there is a difference. It does make light of a lot things that aren't of good nature. I guess that's their way of competing with the big guns. C'mon, when many Christians listen to country music and believe nothing is wrong with said music and it's message about drinking, they will keep making these songs and videos.

The lesser of two evils I guess, though, I don't care for either of them. Neither are wholesome, both cater to what the public wants and it's fans. In any case, I listen to hymns and contemporary classical music, which is far different than today's style of music. MTV, by far influenced me in a negative way in my adolescence.

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:

I would also recommend speaking to the music directors in the same kind and understanding tone that you have done so here. Most would love to have encouraging constructive feedback, especially if they can improve the worship experience of a large segment of the congregation.

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Thanks GD. Actually my impression is that most music ministers get all the input they want, and come to resent all the suggestions. But that may be too much of a generalization.

Originally posted by Gib:
Hymns and/or contemporary songs should not be sung for our enjoyment. I always thought they should be sung to our Father in heaven for His enjoyment.

As far as not getting the message and only hearing the tune, you may not be listening for the right reason.

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lol...well if we aren't supposed to receive enjoyment from the music then I will go in, do my duty, and sing it up! Like it or not!

Just kidding Gib.

Let me tell you what I know. I've been a Christians for a while now, and been in mininstry for a while, both as a pastor and a worship leader. I've been in all kinds of worship environments, form ultra-conservative (I have been worship leader at 2 IFB churches) to very contemporary. I've attended concerts in every style from Southern Gospel Quartets to Gaither Homecomings to hard alternative. I've been in group settings where everything was as fake as lee press-on nails, and I've been in group settings where the worship was authentic and intense. All that to say this: I've been in the family for a while, and I know my Father's voice, and I know when I've been in His presence.

Last night I attended an event with Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman and Louie Giglio. It was absolutely incredible. The music was what many of you would consider Rock and Roll. (I really wouldn't call it that, but some of you would) The focus was totally and completely on Jesus Christ. God was worshipped in Spirit and in Truth, the Name of Jesus was lifted high, and God responded my touching my heart in a very special way, and those around me had a similar experience.

So you can debate worldlyness, back-beats and up-beats, and that junk as much as you want. But the simple fact is this - I know when I've been with my Father, and we had an incredible time last night! And the music was kickin'!

Originally posted by guitarpreacher:

So you can debate worldlyness, back-beats and up-beats, and that junk as much as you want. But the simple fact is this - I know when I've been with my Father, and we had an incredible time last night! And the music was kickin'!

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That is fine. That's great. But even you said, "the music was kickin" meaning that you liked that style of music. So the type of music does matter, and I just think it's a shame when so many churches completely cut out those of us who like the traditional music best.

NiteShift has a point - that's why I like the blended approach to music style. There's something for everyone there.

For those that are contemporary-minded, I think it's a mistake to toss these wonderful songs of the faith, just as it's a mistake to call all modern Christian music "worldy."

Niteshift,

There is no way that a church can be all things to all people. I have been worship leader at two SBC churches where we tried to do a blended service, a mixture of hymns and contemporary songs. All I succeeded in doing was ticking everybody off. The traditional folks thought we did way to much contemporary and the contemporary folks thought we did way too many hymns. I would never do that again. If you feel like you have to have both, go to two services. The town I live in, for example, has 8 SBC churches for a population of around 40,000. Since we know that in that 40,000 there will be people from all different walks of life, does it really make sense for all 6 churches to sing the exact same songs in the same style? It don't to me.

This is really what the argument is about. I don't care if some people prefer hymns. God bless them! Sing the hymns with all your heart and use them to lift Jesus up and worship Him. I'll never say your music is godless because it's 300 years old and does not connect with 90% of the current generation. If it moves your heart to worship God, then by all means sing hymns! Same with Southern Gospel. Personally, I'd just about as soon be poked in the eye with a stick as sit through a Gaither concert. But that's all about my taste in music and has nothing to do with the godliness of their songs. Praise God that that Bill Gaither is out there leading people to encounter Christ. Just don't make me listen.

This is one of the biggest problems I see with churches in general, and Baptist churches in particular, is the idea that if you're not my twin, you can't be my brother. We should not be that way. God has a huge spiritual family, and it's filled with all kinds of people. Looking at creation it's very obvious that God loves variety. How foolish for us to think he would want to be worshipped by only one style of music.

Just because a style of music is not pleasing to you doesn't mean it can't be pleasing to God. I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to listen to Rap. To me, Rap is to good music what slow pitch soft ball is to world class atheltics. But if Toby Mac can take Rap music and use it to lead young people to encounter the living God, Then I pray he has an abundance of opportunities to Rap for Christ. (again, just please don't make me listen to it)

Here is an excellent article on the subject from Michael Spencer (aka The Internet Monk)

http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/that-flushing-sound-evangelicals-worship-till-theres-nothing-left

I have been worship leader at two SBC churches where we tried to do a blended service, a mixture of hymns and contemporary songs. All I succeeded in doing was ticking everybody off.

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I disagree. I've been in two churches where we had blended music and the congregation approved. The key in both cases has been the pastor teaching the people to be gracious in their music.

Personally I like the blended services way more than I would a service with all high church or all southern gospel or all contemporary. I like it all and I want to hear it all

From the article: "When Rick Warren said that music is the primary factor in church growth, he changed forever what many small churches chose as worship leaders."

Rick Warren never said that. If anyone is interested in the truth, RW has always said church growth comes from church health. Healthy churches grow. He did say in "Purpose Driven Church" that we should not underestimate the importance of music in our worship. But he never said it was the primary factor in church growth. The writers credibility takes a hit when he can't get basic quotes right.

From the article: "If you wonder where all the grown-ups went at the Church On The Corner, you’re not alone."

The truth is, at the typical "church on the corner" the generation that is now age 18 - 35 is noticably missing. And not because the church on the corner is going out of its way to reach them, but because the church refuses to change methods in order to make a connection.

I read the whole article, and it sounds like a big whine because now instead of brother Jim Bob standing up and waving his arm through Rock of Ages while sister Sally plays the piano poorly, people now desire/demand excellence in the churches music program. I think that's true whether you sing contemporary or traditional. The quality must be good or people aren't going to want to be a part of it. If you don't want to put forth the effort, find a different ministry. God deserves excellence.

Hi GP,

I think he was paraphrasing Warren and he captures his essence. Warren has said

The style of music you choose to use in your services will be one of the most critical (and controversial!) decisions you make in the life of your church. It may be THE most influential factor in determining who your church reaches for Christ and whether or not your church grows. You must match your music to the kind of people God wants your church to reach.

http://www.pastorport.com/ministrytoday.asp?mode=viewarchive&index=18

One has to wonder why the great importance of Music? It seems that Music has become synomous with Worship now or the new Transubstatiation(Mispelled I am sure). The only way we can meet God is in music it seems is the philosophy.

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith states, The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord ;as also the administration of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to Him, with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; “

Singing and Music has a part in worship but what is the purpose of it?
Col. 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. (NIV)


Col. 3:16
Let Christ's word with all its wisdom and richness live in you. Use psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to teach and instruct yourselves about {God's} kindness. Sing to God in your hearts. (GW)

Singing is to instruct or teach us about God kindness. So actually the Music part of our service is a teaching service. That is why it is so important that our hymns and songs be doctrinally correct and also be filled with Theology. Songs are to reinforce our doctrinal beliefs. They are not for entertainment. How often do we pay attention to what we are singing?

Too often much modern day praise music is pathetic. That is not to condemn all of it but they often are void of theology.

A good example is I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever. A song that is so bad one wonders why it is popular. No mention of God in the song and the song could be a song to a wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, your dog. It is just a awful song.

Of course hymns, songs are not just meant to instruct us in Christian theology they ultimately are for an audience of ONE. In a sense singing is also a prayer in that it is a praise to God.


Ephes. 5:19
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,

I am not against newer music or songs. I am against songs devoid of theology and are of nursery rhyme repetition quality. I am also against making Music the predominant part of worship. The Reading of Scripture (In Unison or Responsive) the Preaching and Teaching of the Word of God as well as Prayer are worship also.

I relate with Spencer's article. I am a former Youth Pastor. Back in late 80's and early 90's on Wednesday night we had a separate Youth service with CCM music though we never would have thought of using it to take over Sunday worship. It was for teenagers much like singing "Father Abraham" is for preschoolers. It has made me question my own use of CCM while I was Youth Pastor over a decade ago in that I was focusing too much on Music and not enough on the Word of God and Prayer.

I posted this on a similar thread a while back. Great is Thy Faithfulness was thought too contemporary whern it was included in the Baptist Hymnal.

While my taste is not head banging music, I do like our orchestra and praise band which includes, guitars, piano, keyboard, drums, strings, and horns.

Please don't get hung up on which is better, hymns or choruses. They each have a place in our church today. Some prefer one, some the other, some both.

We would all do well to remember what worship really is: Worship is response to Truth.

Originally posted by donnA:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by canadyjd:
Worship occurs when God reveals Himself to us and we respond in awe, reverence and praise. Pleasing God should be our focus, not pleasing to ourselves.

Since God knows what is most pleasing to Himself when it comes to worship, we should only worship in ways that are supported by scripture.

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And what ways would that be? </font>[/QUOTE]Before I give a few examples, I want to say that we often act as if worship is something we do for God. That is not true. Worship is our response to what God has revealed to us, either by the presence of His Spirit, or by the reading of His word, or by the preaching of His word, or by our giving of tithes and offereings, or by prayer or meditation; or by the encouragement of other believers bound together with us by the Holy Spirit; We respond in song, and/or praise, and/or heart filled joy etc; all of which can be worship.

Hebrews 12:28: Requires worship with reverence and awe, for God is a consuming fire. This would prohibit anything "irreverent", such as clowns or puppets.

John 4:24: Requires worship in Spirit and Truth. Spirit must mean having our spirits in right relationship and attitude toward God. (Unbelievers can't worship God because their spirits are not right with God, so why are we planning our services to please unbelievers?) Truth must mean according to the truth that has been revealed to us by God in the person of Jesus Christ. (It is not just about doing whatever you think is right)

Ephesians 5:18-21
don't be drunk with wine (and conversely)
do be filled with the (Holy) Spirit (this is a command)
speaking to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, (when was the last time you sung a psalm? It is commanded worship)
singing, making melody in your(plural) heart(singular) (Wow, as if we were one body!) to the Lord (Christ is our focus, not pleasing ourselves)
always giving thanks...in the name of our Lord
Be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Anytime we focus on ourselves, or what pleases us instead of what is pleasing to God, then we cannot be focused on Christ and therefore, cannot respond in worship to what God has revealed.

There are many more examples of worship found in scripture.

peace to you

Originally posted by USN2Pulpit:
For those that are contemporary-minded, I think it's a mistake to toss these wonderful songs of the faith, just as it's a mistake to call all modern Christian music "worldy."

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Exactly right!

Originally posted by Kiffen:
Too often much modern day praise music is pathetic. That is not to condemn all of it but they often are void of theology.

A good example is I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever. A song that is so bad one wonders why it is popular. No mention of God in the song and the song could be a song to a wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, your dog. It is just a awful song.

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You said that the song I Could Sing Of Your Lover Forever has no mention of God. I think you need to go back and actually read the words of the song.

http://www.delirious.org.uk/lyrics/songs/icouldsing.html

And pay attention to the words "and let the Healer set me free".

And I am sorry but GOD is "The Healer"

To settle this disagreement why don't we just stop sing songs in the church and just preach and pray.(just Joking) But really it doesn't matter if it is "tradtional" songs or "contemporary" songs, all GOD wants is our worship. And people worship in different ways:

preaching
teaching
playing music
singing songs
running sound systems


1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

So what ever it is that you do; do it for the glory of god

As I stated in an earlier post, worship is response to truth.

Remember Abraham and Isaac? Here's what Abraham said to his servants when he went to Mt. Moriah, "And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." (Genesis 22:5) In case you forgot, Abraham had gone there to sacrifice his only son.

It is the first time the word "worship" is used in Scripture.

That'll preach.