Are our churches really New Testament Churches...

Wrong! 501c3 applies to all churches regardless of corporate status.

And to non-incorporated churches and religious related organizations.

Wrong again. When you seek incorporation with the state all you get is incorporation papers. When you file with the IRS for an EIN (Employer Identification Number) all you get is an EIN, and you don't have to be incorporated to get an EIN.

The church is now, always has been, and always will be Christ's. To not pay taxes does not make you a branch of the government. To pay your people a fair salary does not make you a branch of the government.

You have been listening to a bunch of nit wits who have made a business of going into churches and telling them this stuff and making a LOT of money while doing it. These people are parasites, leeches, and false teachers, who lie about what Title 26 says, lie about what state laws regarding incorporation say, and lie about what the bible says about the Lord's churches.

Before passing all those lies along, try doing a little research and you will realize you have been lied to and you are passing those lies along to others.

 

Then you haven't done a very good job of research. You still confuse non-taxability under federal statutes with incorporation under states statutes.

Which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

<sigh> One more time. NO church has to file any papers with the IRS to be considered non-taxable under 501c3. It is automatic for all churches to be considered non-taxable by the IRS under 501c3.

You are still confused. First of all the state does not exercise any control over a church in the context of message or ministry. That is forbidden by the US Constitution.

Secondly an EIN is simply an Employer Identification Number. It has nothing to do with 501c3, taxability, or anything else. All it does is allow the IRS (and SSA) to know to whom to credit any taxes withheld. It connects the withholding tax to the taxpayer from whom the tax was withheld by comparing the EIN of the employer to the SSN of the tax payer . And even then, churches are not required to withhold income or FICA taxes if doing so would violate their conscience. All they have to do is inform the IRS that they choose not to withhold taxes.

By the way, your having a SSN is exactly the same thing as a church having an EIN. To say a church should not have an EIN is just as absurd as saying a person should not have a SSN.

Thirdly, you don't "seek recognition." You don't even have to inform the IRS that you are a church, are not taxable, it is automatic. The only thing you have to do is inform the IRS you choose not to withhold taxes. And you can even choose not to do that! If you choose not to tell the IRS you are non-taxable, and choose not to tell you IRS you don't want to withhold income and FICA taxes, then the church is free to do both, as well as pay income taxes on all its income from tithes and offerings. But you must choose one or the other. If you do NOT pay taxes on tithes and offerings, it is because you are non-taxable under 501c3.

That is all there is to the tax issue, which, again, has absolutely nothing at all to do with being incorporated under state laws.

 

There is so much wrong information in this post I really don't know where to start so I will just take it in order.

John posted the fact that the RCA was incorporated over 400 years ago to disprove your incorrect assertion that churches being incorporated was a recent phenomena. He made no claim as to the biblical fidelity of those churches. Your assertion has been disproved.

Wrong again. He proved that your assertion of recent origin was wrong. Whether or not a church is incorporated has absolutely nothing at all to do with its fidelity to the bible and to Christ. And, of course, all churches are non-taxable under 501c3 so your rhetoric is again proven to be uninformed and incorrect.

Sorry, but, yes they are. Grossly so.

Wrong again. A church need not be incorporated to be acknowledged to exist by the state governments nor by the federal government. Incorporation simply establishes a legal fiction where the church body collectively is considered to be a single person rather than a group of individuals.

When you apply to your state for incorporation each state's requirements differ so no blanket statement can be made regarding the functional requirements of incorporation. However, the US Constitution forbids any state from interfering with the practice of any church. That is well establish Constitutional and Case law in reference to the establishment clause in the first amendment.

Except that your "facts" are not only deniable, they are simply wrong!

Nobody is allowed to molest children, so I guess churches are forbidden from doing so also. Nobody is allowed to murder people, so I guess churches are forbidden from doing so also. However, as every church that does not pay taxes on its tithes and offerings is a 501c3 church, then the obvious daily practices of those churches prove the inaccuracy of your statement.

Wrong again. A church does not have to file for 501c3 status for it is automatic, but a church does have to file incorporation papers with the State Department of Corporation (or Secretary of State's office or whatever it is called in your state) if they choose to be incorporated.

Wrong yet again! An LLC is a "Limited Liability Company." An LLC combines the personal liability protection of a corporation with the tax benefits and simplicity of a partnership. Owners of an LLC are not personally liable for its debts and liabilities, but also have the benefit of being taxed only once on their profits. Such does not apply to churches.

If you don't want to protect the members of your church of personal liability for everything the church does, then don't, but also don't spread false information about those who do.

 

Once again you display your inability to comprehend the difference between incorporation and 501c3 status. It is necessary to file for incorporation, but it is not necessary to file for 501c3 status, that is automatic for all churches. Churches that choose to incorporate do so to protect their members from liability for the actions of the church.

I have read the statute. Have you? Being a church, and not paying taxes on all tithes and offerings, does not mean the government controls the church. The only thing a church must do is act like a church. It cannot act like a PAC, and if it does, it will no longer be considered non-taxable. But even then, some political activity is okay as long as that political activity does not consume more than 5% of the churches resources.

<sigh>One last time. There is no correlation between being non-taxable under 501c3 and being incorporated in your state. They are entirely different subjects. How many more times do I have to tell you before it sinks in?

As to "501c3 rules" here they are:

1. Pursuit of the following corporate purposes only: Charitable, educational, religious, literary, or scientific purposes.

In other words, a church should do what a church is supposed to do.

2. No distribution of financial gains to directors, officers or members.

In other words the pastor is not allowed to steal all the churches money and use it for himself.

3. Corporate assets may only be distributed to another tax exempt organization upon dissolution of the nonprofit corporation.

In other words, when a church folds, the pastor is not allowed to sell everything and run off with the money.

4. Participation in political campaigns for or against persons running for public office is prohibited.

In other words a church is not a PAC.

5. Substantial engagement in legislative political activities is forbidden.

In other words, a little political speech from the pulpit is okay, but that is not the overall purpose of the church.

Simple, isn't it!

 

You keep saying you understand the difference between incorporation and 501c3 status, then you post something like the above that proves you don't.

A church does not have to do anything to be officially recognized. A church can be an association of individuals. It can be a charitable trust. It can be many things without being incorporated and still be officially recognized as a church.

It is quite obvious you don't.

Wrong again! In order to incorporate in California a church must files articles of incorporation including bylaws, state the names and addresses of the persons incorporating, the purpose of the corporation, appoint directors and give director information, appoint an agent, file an annual statement of incorporation, and pay a $145 application fee.

Finally you got something right!

I am glad you have finally learned something!

<sigh> No, that is not what incorporation does. Corporation creates an entity that is treated as if it were a single person rather than a group of individuals. I already posted all the requirements of a tax free corporation. Why do you ignore them?

One more time! To protect God's people from liability for any actions of the church!

No, it is a fact. If a Sunday School teacher molests a child or a child slips and falls and is injured, in a non-incorporated church the child's parents can not only sue and take all the church property, they can sue all the members and take their homes and other property. Incorporation prevents that.

In case you failed to notice, churches are full of people and sometimes people do some really horrid things.

Tell that to Indianapolis Baptist Temple. Tell it to Harvest Baptist Church. Tell it to Fair Haven Baptist Church. As those unincorporated churches had property seized by the state, either you are lying or Jesus lied. Let me think about it. Who lied? Well, I won't call you a liar, but I know Jesus didn't lie!