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Did not Paul say that, "AFTER you believed you received the Holy Spirit of promise? Eph. 1:12-13 "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye...

You will get different answers from different perspectives. It's difficult to explain, I think the reason for so much confusion. Let's take a look at Eph. 1:4-5 from a different perspective. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and...

Here's an example of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit through the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:36-38 Peter is preaching at Pentecost to the crowd. "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both...

It's the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that opens the eyes and heart to all who will believe Him. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, and gives the hearer the opportunity to call on God with repentance. Rom. 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Man could not choose Christ if God had not provided that choice. God does all the saving, man is left with the choice of who he will serve, God or Satan. It's one or the other, no exceptions.

The God I serve wants all men everywhere to be saved. But all men everywhere will not repent. God gives man the choice to serve Him or not, and just as Adam was beforehand given the consequences, so He gives it to all. Acts 17:30-31 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now...

...how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! I don't know the God you serve, @Zaatar71, he is foreign to me.

Yes, and there are so many that don't know the difference. So many that think God has never reached out to them, that He doesn't love them, that they cannot know Him. Psalms 126:5-6 "They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall...

I was thinking there will be a lot of denouncing Calvinism after we leave this earth.

Here's the way I see it, Dave. There are two "elects" in Scripture, Israel being the first and second are all who born-again in Christ Jesus. Isaiah 45:4 "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known...

Man can pervert the light into darkness on this earth. I most definitely see a dark side of God's predestination by man.

Of course there is a condition to the plan that TULIP denies. We must choose to believe and accept Christ to benefit from the plan.

It's the dark side of predestination. I believe man was predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ according to His plan of redemption before the foundation of the world. I see the plan being predestined for man before the foundation of the world, the plan of how man would be...

Well said! The bottom line for me is what must God think of this? Do they even care what God thinks of it?

I don't care who doesn't like it, TULIP is an evil force that pulls in its prey and won't let go.

My Bible says that "all" men will be drawn to Christ. There's that word "all" again. John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." All men are drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit, Dave G, but only those who believe the Gospel will be saved.

No matter who you are, what you've done in this life, Christ has the power to deliver you from your sins. Christ said this some 2000 years ago and is still saying it today to anyone who desires peace of heart and soul. Matt. 11:28-29 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and...

Shame, shame on you BF, for limiting the will of God to save the lost in this world that Christ gave His life for.

In Rom. 11 just after Paul says "for with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation," He says, Rom. 11:17, "so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Man heard the Gospel in the Word of God, believed it and confessed...

You will be ashamed when you find that Christ offered Himself to the whole world and for all time as a sacrifice for their sins. 1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." God help you, Dave G.