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That's the Calvinist way, pick a verse that works for the theory and quote it! Let's take a look at your verse in context. John 6:64-65 "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said...

From the very beginning salvation has always been justified by faith! The Law of Moses pointed to Christ in the inability to be accepted by God in any other way. If those under the Law were honest with themselves they knew they were guilty before God in doing their best. That is what the...

According to Calvinism anything other than Calvinism is works. So you belong to a elite group, good luck!

Speaking of sorting out, how would you like to have God's job of sorting out every person who has ever lived? I don't envy that responsibility in the least.

Most posters say that because they have read, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness." It's justification by faith, what do you call it?

Ok Van, whatever you say.

But what about the Judgment, God will not have called these sinners to repentance, He left them in the dark. He didn't even die for them giving them no chance, according to Calvinism. How will God justify Himself when they ask why they were not given a chance. You know as well as I this is...

You can't possibly believe I'm a Calvinist, believing God individually chooses who will be saved!!! From one absurdity to the next. I can't have conversation with you, Van, it's just ridiculous.

When the Sovereign God asked "if you be willing" was He lowering His standard of Sovereignty or are you misunderstanding His Sovereignty altogether?

Notice the "If you be willing."

How does the Calvinist Dictionary interpret this. Isaiah 1:18-20 "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good...

Are we reading the same Scripture where the Hebrews in the wilderness would not obey God, but yet He pleaded with them to do so? All through the Scripture God is pleading with Israel to keep His commandments but would not. That tells me man has free will to say NO to God. But it it's not good...

It ever ends with you, Van. They were accepted by God through faith just as we are, Justification by faith.

No, Ken, I'm speaking against your theory and that has everything to do with it. I realize I also have a different interpretation and they clash. We're talking about a an insult to God if your interpretation is wrong, that's not the case if mine is wrong!

Just as with Abel when God accepted his sacrifice, He accepted the man who presented the sacrifice in faith. The same goes for Abraham and all of us for that matter.

I'm not resenting and despising you, Ken. I count you as my Brother in Christ despite our differences. I take the theory you hold very seriously as a direct insult before God.

I'm resenting, despising, and speaking against your Calvinist interpretation of Rom, 9:10-23.

Yes, I am what you say in the 1st paragraph, can't deny that! But I'm a creation that was given free will to choose my way through this life. I can choose God and be with Him forever, or I can reject Him and be with the god of this world forever. God does not make that choice, and you will...

It's obvious that we must hear before we can believe, I think no one will argue with that but the Hyper-Calvinists. I think it's obvious if we believe that we are declared righteous before God and washed immediately. So I don't get your point of this? It can all take place in seconds and the...

What you're saying is that God chooses who will be His robots, and off the Hell with the rest He doesn't want. Whether you like it or not that is what you've said!