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His views make sense to the ear but not according to Scripture. We have to go back to the Garden and see how angry God was with sin. The penalties and reality of the results and seriousness of sin. PSA agrees with what I see taking place, but that's my opinion.

I watched all of the video, Jon. He started out explaining PSA pretty much as I understand it from Scripture. He goes on to explain 7 points of difference in PSA and the Early Church Model (ECM). A lot of hair splitting with analogies taking place. I think anyone here who listens to the video...

This exceeds my expectations of what I was looking for. I'm going to read this again tomorrow before I reply. Thank you Cathode for taking the time to expand my knowledge on this document! I may not agree with some of this, but at least I have a much better understanding of it. Thanks

I'll listen to it in the morning when I'm not so tired, or maybe better said in the morning when my attention span is stronger.

Hey Cathode, glad to hear from you! Things got a little heated with Walter but I don't expect that with you. Go figure I guess, I don't know what happened to be honest. It just goes there sometimes. I would like for you to know I have the utmost respect for Mary. It's my understanding there...

I'm somewht like you, Jon, in that I don't follow the status quo of Doctrine. For example, I may very well be the only one on BB that believes a righteous man declared righteous by God can lose that righteousness, other than the Catholics. The determining factor is not what my denomination...

Jon, I'm no scholar, I'm simple minded in reading much commentary over the years and believing what I see from Scripture. I see no evidence in Scripture of anything other than penal substitution. If someone could point out the alternative from Scripture I would most certainly review it for...

I was always tolerable of those who claimed 4pt. Calvinism, but the 5 pt. make a good argument there is no such thing as a 4pt. Calvinist. I wonder if any of the Calvinists here have been involved on either side of this argument?

That's where that disagreement we have comes from, that thing called free will. Hearing, seeing a need and believing, then granted righteousness.

Contributing to hostility is only natural and all of us at one time or another have contributed to it. That's not an excuse, more like a fact. But yes, I'd like to read what you have.

That's called Hyper-Calvinism. I'm sure you've heard that before. Born-again before you ever hear the Gospel.

If anyone wants it, believes it, and accepts it, they will be born of God. That's why Christ said, "whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely." But if they hear the words of the Gospel and have no hunger and thirst for righteousness as did those Pharisees, they will be...

I never rule out the possibility that I have misunderstood something. At the same time I have studied the atonement in detail and continue to try and better understand it. It will take some powerful truths from Scripture for me to see it any other way. But that's not impossible, I have been...

@JonC Doctrine is formed by Scripture interpreting Scripture, we have to be very careful in how we do that. Especially as you have noted from the beginning there is no direct Scripture confirming PSA. We have to let the Scripture tell us, and I have stated the only way I can see it interpreted.

I'm not defending my belief, I stated it's possible I could be wrong and if I am please forgive me Lord. I'm saying that its the only way I can see it. I'm open for another view but I haven't seen one that fits Scripture.

Yes, everyone who wants the truth. The hearing of the Gospel is what presents the truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. "How can they hear without a preacher?" You've got it backwards. You are presenting Hyper-Calvinism.

We have a debt of sin to God. We have earned our wages of that debt in death, eternal separation from God. Surly you can see the debt, Jon. Christ is the satisfaction for that sin debt, making it possible for us to be declared free of that debt by grace through faith.

I'm saying that if Christ had not suffered and died on that Cross all of us would have a debt we can't pay. We were bought with a price, as the apostle said. If that price had not been paid by Christ we would all meet in Hell.

Were you able to pay for your sins, or did Christ have to do that for you to be accepted by the Father?

You have to be honest with yourself and see a need for a Savior. And even then many will reject Christ by putting it off. My Dad was 75 when he was saved. He said he always believed the Gospel from a child, but he could not accept Christ knowing he would be a hypocrite at his work around that...