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Yes, the death of man was inevitable through the fact of sin. But we were condemned to a much worse fate than that. The One who never sinned and God's Law could not take hold of, volunteered to suffer that wrath on our part.

Ok, Brother, I understand your position and I have no problem with it. I would have a problem if this was deemed mandatory knowledge with God. Let me explain, if I can, why I'm PSA. The wrath of God on man for His sin is death, that is exactly what Christ took for us in our place. That...

Where does guilty man condemned to death by the Law of a Holy God find reconciliation in your parables? The wrath of God on man for his sin must be carried out by God's Law. There is no way around it. And who took the place of man?

See what I mean by nothing to be gained? This will continue to the Second Coming and we will still be disagreeing.

What limited atonement view? Where is that in Scripture? That is present only in theory and an interpretation taken to form that theory.

There is no atonement theory that can be absolutely proven from Scripture. I disagree that if PSA is correct then limited atonement has to be correct. Whether the atonement was for only the Elect or for the entirety of humanity the theme of PSA is the same. Christ took the punishment of...

Let's overlook the various Popes throughout the centuries who have declared insane doctrine found nowhere in Scripture. At least our squabbles are found in Scripture in some way.

I agree with the Calvinists on PSA to the point I previously mentioned. The general theme we agree, but for whom is the difference. I find no fault in the others who disagree with me, God does not demand we understand the complete details of the Atonement. Only that through His Son we have...

Did David the man after God's own heart lose his? Faith is the order of the believers life. He never lost that faith, as David and the rest of us, we all fall short in different ways.

I've never checked into it, but you're probably right on that. The ads aren't causing me any real problems so I'll just leave it as is.

The first point he makes is that OSAS was born from Calvinism, which thing he despises.

Yes he does, and makes an excellent case for it!

The Calvinists view PSA as a payment made only for the Elect, that's where I get off the train. I believe the atonement was the reconciliation payment for sin for the entire world. Limited Atonement is not found in my Bible.

I was more less focused on the discussion being repeated over and over with a different conclusion altogether. I can see though you have gained in nailing down your conclusion more firmly. I would think the same could be said of the opposite conclusion.

Not when two minds are locked in disagreement.

Yes, those are but a small part of the extremes I mentioned. There are Pentecostals who are separating themselves from such extremes. The ones I know here in town are more along the lines of the teachings of Jimmy Swaggart. If you overlook his great focus on the gifts, he could definitely...

Well, I won't comment, I see nothing to be gained.

I've found that the Pentecostals hold almost identical to the same theology as Baptists. Of course that varies across the board, but the ones I know believe the same. It's there focus on the gifts that I see as extreme. Some are more extreme than others, so less extreme Pentecostals is...

Have you down loaded that app that removes the ads? I've never looked into it but I hear its free or was, don't know.

Let's reason this out, Jon. The atonement didn't save anyone, that much we know. It made salvation by grace through faith possible. So our sin debt that cursed us to death was placed on Christ, enabling us to be saved and receive the Holy Spirit for our sins to be washed away by the Blood of...