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You don't get it

okay

Im not spending time going through that for you. You wont believe a word I say, I dont see why you even ask me to explain scripture to you, you already said I dont know what Im talking about.

@Dave G The penalty of sin for the elect was always going to be Christs responsibility, if we believe He was setup as their Surety before the world began, in what some call the everlasting covenant.

@Dave G Yep it is, Im sorry its difficult for you to grasp Okay I can agree with this. My point is His death saved them from wrath, His wrath is against sinners as in vessels of wrath Rom 9 but The elect were never under His wrath, and Christ propitiated Gods due wrath for their sins, I said...

@Dave G It doesnt matter, but what He suffered for His Sheep pacified, appeased His Just wrath against their sins. You dont have to have the buzz word He suffered the wrath of God, the non elect have to face Gods wrath since He didnt die for them and satisfy Justice against their sins. His...

Not only Christ didnt die for the permanent lost, The Father never elected them.If the Father has not chosen one, the Son hasn't died for them, and the Spirit isnt going to regenerate/renew them. Its a wrap

Its the truth any how

Thats not spiritual death, but national death as they eventually did die. It has nothing to do with salvation through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Most of the nation spiritually was spiritually dead in the first place, except a small remnant.

Titus 2:14 isnt my opinion

@Silverhair Technically thats correct, they were always saved by grace and purpose in the eternal phase of salvation 2 Tim 1:9 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus...

@Van He didn't die for all humanity and not one scripture says He did.

Of course it matters. What does passive voice mean in relation to the subject van ? You run and get the greek, now you saying it doesnt matter lol

I gave you my verse, that settles it for me, I make my claims from scripture that has enlightened me, I dont need your catch words. What I provided means the same thing.

In bible hub greek and blue letter bible greek text its passive voice, not middle. And scripture for all interlinear has passive voice eporeuqhsan eporeuthEsan G4198 vi Aor pasD 3 Pl WERE-GONE went https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat28.pdf Now if you have a source that...

I gave you scripture

I explained why. They went passive voice, because of the prearrangement of Christ, so they had no choice but to agree. Jesus is sovereign over the minds, hearts and wills of men fella

You seemed to indicate that all men receive grace from God, maybe at different measures, my point is that the non elect receive no Grace at all in the matters of salvation. God hasn't revealed Himself to all mankind that way. His revelation in creation doesnt count, that's not an redemptive...

@Van 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. They may have agreed however Jesus did the appointing, they didn't appoint them selves. Also the words went away in the original are poreuō: to lead over, carry over, transfer to...

For some, not all, because some are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom and there is for them a day of wrath Job 21 30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.