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Still just trying to get one clear passage in the NT that states to us that we while lost sinners still had full free will inherit within us

man already chose though to be at war against God and be His enemy

What does that term mean in the greek text, Propitiation?

Would it be unfair to have Jesus experience that deserved wrath due us since He had agree from eternity past to be our sin bearer? Just trying to understand what your rejection of that would be based upon Brother

What would happen to anyone who rejected Jesus, would they not them face the wrath and condemnation of God, so why would not Jesus endure the same when he died for us?

Did he die in my stead, for my personal sins is the question

All of that you describe though is the working of the Holy Spirit Himself, as we cannot will ourselves to do any of that, correct?

Where is that doctrine of full free will taught though, as my bible states that desire God, no not right, nor seek after Him?

we now have spiritually died in Adam, and when born again made spiritually alive again in Christ

Something did change my brother, its called the Fall of Adam and that brought to us all now spiritual death

Where then is the full free will gospel taught in the NT?

The Holy Spirit regenerates us based upon the election of God unto salvation

Unless the Holy Spirit enables them to hear though, they will remain deaf and dumb to it

Perfect summary of the doctrine of irresistible grace towards and upon His own elect

God bases His election towards us who will be found in Jesus per His good will and pleasure, and then He predestines us due to our election in Christ, so 2 separate processes here, and diagreement would be on just what basis did God rest His election onm?

So to understand what you are stating here, and thanks for the clarification JonC, is that while were were sinners and under the judgement of God for those sins, God decided to save us based upon our repenting and he then made us saved and brand new creatures now in Christ, and forgive our past...

So we would disagree if Jesus tok wrath of God due to us when sinners , but what fo you mean when saved we no longer have prior dins Hod has to deal with or am I misunderstanding you?

manmade as in what Jesus and his Apostles held and taught?

Have w quoted to you and fellow posters several times scriptures, yet keep being said to be not truth of the word, just philosophy

It is beyond our minds to fully understand how one as the sin bearer can become sin for us, to be treated by Holy God the Father as Chief sinner, and yet still remain sinless Himself