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All beliefs/ arguments/ assumptions do end up at an assumed rote fact........somewhere......at some point. There is ultimately a "given". And we all have to appeal to it as an ultimate root explanation. All of us, Christian, Hindu, atheist, et.al. we all start somewhere. This is hardly an...

*sigh* No. That's not what I'm saying. I feel like you have a cursory understanding of this topic and the arguments used, but, are rather new to the conversation. I am saying instead that the Universal thriving of human beings is not a uniform and universal desire of all persons. Some would...

Assuming that is a Universal for human nature...(andI do not grant that).That still says nothing about what "ought" to be. That is merely a description of what is. You cannot derive and ought from an is. Assuming unguided evolution, this is merely a biological or psychological phenomenon...

I don't know who believe you are talking to....But, I need zero "tips" from you about how to debate philosophy, and how it pertains to Religion specifically. I'm not ignorant of this topic. When I said: "Says who???" that was in response to your assertion that: I, (quite reasonably) asked you...

No, stop lying. I freely and completely admit God ordered the slaying of children. Tell the truth for crying out loud. Tell me something I don't know, and haven't already said myself in this pointless exchange with you. YUP! I know, you are beginning to bore me by repeating the same stuff...

John, I'm deleting everything else in this post to hone in on one point.... Tell me if that is unfair: God is an intelligent mind. He doesn't rely on anything to give him purpose, you and I rely on him to grant us purpose. That is what he is...(among other things) he has purpose...

o.k... I know you don't tend to dicker with terms, so....fair enough, That partucular sentence confused me, not your fault. Well, I would argue that since they are restricted to the natural world, they can't properly define any moral mores as properly "moral" because they are naturalistically...

There is a "purpose" behind it considering Theism: "Purpose" requires an intelligent mind to give a thing "purpose". Given Theism...there is "purpose" to human thriving... Given a-theism...there is no "purpose" at all. "Purpose" means a desire of an intelligent mind to achieve an end: Atheism...

Pray for the victim.

I think these questions I've raised earlier have not been sufficiently answered, and they drive at the heart of my argument: In case anyone thinks it is "cheap" to bring up the notion of a psycopath..."counter-examples" to a problem are absolutely a Universally utilized and profitable way of...

thanks. :rolleyes: God exists. Not a topic for debate on this thread. This is a thread for adults, who already know this.

I think I'm with you so far.. I don't think I'm with you here. (You don't have to bold everything...we'll still see it) ;) . An atheist can easily ground morality upon this....but, the question would arise, Why should the long term holistic pleasure of human beings be sought after? The...

OMG! thanks for FINALLY rejoining the DEBATE YOU STARTED!! :Wink I assume you are posting these things so that no one will question your sincerity, faith, or passion for truth. I do not doubt that. I do disagree with your critique of the "Moral argument"...but, I do not at all question your...

I'm not sure what you mean by "framework"...but, I suppose we'll deal with it later. Yes, and as such, God has the authority to require all humans to adhere to the moral standard he insists upon. I think we might be arriving at the crux of the matter: Whether a person individually accepts...

I don't dance around it, I state it clearly and unapologetically. God doesn't torture babies. You have, so far, shown zero Biblical passages stating as much. And you will also never find them. I also think you know that, and are doubling and tripling down to save face somehow, but, perhaps...

^ That would be a subjective framework. Because it is subjective in nature, and does not carry with it a duty which can be imposed upon others. We can quite rightly require all persons to abide by the moral framework the Scripture provides. We know from more than mere innate understanding that...

No reason to apologize. They're just non-sense is all.:Thumbsup

I have to disagree. They cannot. While Atheists assume moral truths they cannot ground them in their own philosophical framework. Inevitably, when they try to contend for objective moral truths they will fail because what they assert is either not objectively true but only incidentally true...

I don't try to keep up with non-sense terminology like this. Terms like these should not exist at all and are not worthy of correction. A man acting and dressing like a woman is terrifying to a child. Gay is often one thing...rarely is a simply gay man (for instance) clownishly abnormal even...

I think you took his complaint more seriously because he was a veteran, and the veteran himself insisted that we take his complaint more seriously because of that... He mentioned his veteran status in his response. Here he is demanding special treatment: “I took an oath that I will support and...