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if the veiling is permanent and the understanding of spiritual things never able to be known. God made or keeps them that way, There is a third type of person, like the animals .

#36 you said Unless enlightened spiritually inadequate. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God...

just reading verses, posting verses, asking questions . In this thread scripture you brought up. Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? in other words,, If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch

there is also sin of omission. The focus cannot be on a "law" but complete obedience to Jesus. The relationship should be so clear so that keeping a detail of a law is not considered. It is inappropriate to keep a tally of keeping a list to think it obligates God. We obey not for...

Wrath will be revealed in the future , How is it revealed to lost men in v 18? Rom 1:18¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

I know Jasper and I know sec. 19 .7 and suggest 19.66 If someone does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages the former and deters from the latter, that is not evidence of one's being under the law and not under grace.7 and suggest to satisfy the OP 21.3 Those who...

I perceive that not doing things is very important to SDA's where are you in Ga,? I am near Athens

Those listed by Paul are more interested in their lifestyle sins than accepting God, they are not believers. They continue in their sin rather than stopping as a believer would.

what has that got to do with salvation then from your comments on post #85?

How did creation show the wrath of God? or how was the wrath of God shown here? We might have a problem that supports pre human relationship

no , It is talking about Christians suing each other in civil court of the unrighteous instead of settling disputes in the church by fellow Christians 1Co 6:1¶ Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? read the verses in that light

well, Darrell that has been my point from the beginning, If a human cannot ever know spiritual things, like conviction, If God never enlightens his mind , how could he ever be saved?

Please explain the last post, It obviously means something different to you than me

Darrel C, that is not salvation, that is condemnation by any law Please reduce your verse fonts, I am tired of chasing this mouse

All sin is forgiven . The believer accepts God's pardon Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shallbe saved. 1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins areforgiven you for his name's sake. There is no sin that can cancel salvation Rom 8:38 For I am...

it is saying things about the natural man not talking to him. He is not capable of spiritual things ever ? '

The verse says they cannot so were they ever capable of spiritual things? If they were never capable then they are 3 types because some receive spiritual things , some consider and reject and if these never were capable , a third type. If a third type, them it may explain those who have not...

I will try and pose specific questions and comments

1 John is for false believer who are not Christians Ren 21 8 are not believers Salvation is dependent on the finished work of God no, all sin is forgiven for the believer Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

It also says Rom 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; I do not think creation shows the wrath of God