When did the lost know God?

[loDebar]

DarrelC was nice enough to bring this to our attention in another post

Romans 1:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Notice this phrase in v21 "when they knew God"

When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?


unfortunately for me this is not preexistence

 

[Martin Marprelate]

When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?

Everybody knows deep in their hearts that God is.
It's the Julie Andrews School of Cosmology :
'Nothing comes of nothing;
Nothing ever could.''
They persuade themselves that there's no God because they don't want to believe.

 

[loDebar]

Everybody knows deep in their hearts that God is.
It's the Julie Andrews School of Cosmology :
'Nothing comes of nothing;
Nothing ever could.''
They persuade themselves that there's no God because they don't want to believe.

I think the verses say they know God from creation

 

[Baptist Believer]

When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?

https://www.baptistboard.com/bible/romans/1:18-21/https://www.baptistboard.com/bible/romans/1:18-21/
They know of God through the external witness of creation and the internal witness of consciousness.

Anyone who thinks carefully about the human situation and the nature of reality can conclude that there is a God and that He may be known.
Romans 1:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

unfortunately for me this is not preexistence

A belief in preexistence makes you a good Platonist and/or Mormon, but not a good Christian.

 

[loDebar]

Definitely a good Fundamental Baptist first Christian,

Also an Engineer and trained for attention to the importance of details and logical consideration of facts

It could have been a reference for pre existance except for the the correct use of "man" in verse 18.

That is why I corrected my position mentioned with DarrelC

 

[loDebar]

They know of God through the external witness of creation and the internal witness of consciousness.

Anyone who thinks carefully about the human situation and the nature of reality can conclude that there is a God and that He may be known.
Romans 1:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


A belief in preexistence makes you a good Platonist and/or Mormon, but not a good Christian.

I believe pre existence of man's souls is the only answer to open questions. We have placed man's opinion as fact in doctrine to deny the character of God, the meaning of languages, and ultimately the importance of humanity. We forget we are the bad guys of this Bible narrative

Platonist are more in line as the Gnostic, spiritual is good therefore all physical is bad.
Modern Baptists support this in the Fall of Man, It is backward to God plan , Humanity is not the bad but the good as it is the methods Jesus saves,

The Mormon teaching is in line with JW's and even Islam, All consider Jesus a created being and that ultimately the earth being ascended to the level of Heaven.

Truth is we are the bad guys on death row and being offered a pardon

 

[Darrell C]

They know of God through the external witness of creation and the internal witness of consciousness.

Anyone who thinks carefully about the human situation and the nature of reality can conclude that there is a God and that He may be known.
Romans 1:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


A belief in preexistence makes you a good Platonist and/or Mormon, but not a good Christian.

Everybody knows deep in their hearts that God is.
It's the Julie Andrews School of Cosmology :
'Nothing comes of nothing;
Nothing ever could.''
They persuade themselves that there's no God because they don't want to believe.

I believe his primary question is "when" man/men knew God.

This...

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

...was the stumbling-block, so to speak.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Notice this phrase in v21 "when they knew God"

When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?

In view are those who "knew" God, which some (who shall remain nameless) might think equates to being saved.So in view are men who knew God, then turned from Him and the knowledge of Him.

So what do you say, fellas?


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

post #3 is the answer,

 

[Darrell C]

post #3 is the answer,

I agree.




God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

DarrelC was nice enough to bring this to our attention in another post

Romans 1:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Notice this phrase in v21 "when they knew God"

When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?


unfortunately for me this is not preexistence

Creation reveals to all that God exists, but sinners refuse to acknowledge Him as being real to them.

 

[loDebar]

Can we know God just from Creation?

 

[loDebar]

How is the wrath of God revealed in v 18?

 

[loDebar]

Rom 1:21
because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,

Does creation allow us to know (a relationship) God?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I think the verses say they know God from creation

Do you mean that men know God through creation (correct) or the they have a pre-natal existence during which they know God (incorrect)? I thought you had eschewed the latter opinion.

 

[loDebar]

no , i was asking if knowing of a God through creation is sufficient?

 

[Yeshua1]

Can we know God just from Creation?

NOT in a saving sense, as that requires the special revelation of the Bible and the working of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Yeshua1]

Not to save a lost sinner!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

no , i was asking if knowing of a God through creation is sufficient?

No it is not. Creation is sufficient for people to know that there's a God, and they are therefore 'without excuse,' but it is insufficient for them to discover what he requires of men or what He has done to save them.

 

[loDebar]

Not to save a lost sinner!

so this verse(s) is saying something different because clearly they reject Him as God.

maybe?

 

[loDebar]

It also says
Rom 1:18

¶
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

I do not think creation shows the wrath of God