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When did the lost know God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Mar 7, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    DarrelC was nice enough to bring this to our attention in another post

    Romans 1:18-21
    King James Version (KJV)
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Notice this phrase in v21 "when they knew God"

    When did the lost ("who hold truth in unrighteousness") know God?


    unfortunately for me this is not preexistence
     
    #1 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Everybody knows deep in their hearts that God is.
    It's the Julie Andrews School of Cosmology :Laugh:
    'Nothing comes of nothing;
    Nothing ever could.''
    They persuade themselves that there's no God because they don't want to believe.
     
    #2 Martin Marprelate, Mar 7, 2018
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  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I think the verses say they know God from creation
     
    #3 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
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  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    They know of God through the external witness of creation and the internal witness of consciousness.

    Anyone who thinks carefully about the human situation and the nature of reality can conclude that there is a God and that He may be known.
    Romans 1:20
    King James Version (KJV)
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    A belief in preexistence makes you a good Platonist and/or Mormon, but not a good Christian.
     
    #4 Baptist Believer, Mar 7, 2018
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a good Fundamental Baptist first Christian,

    Also an Engineer and trained for attention to the importance of details and logical consideration of facts

    It could have been a reference for pre existance except for the the correct use of "man" in verse 18.

    That is why I corrected my position mentioned with DarrelC
     
    #5 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  6. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I believe pre existence of man's souls is the only answer to open questions. We have placed man's opinion as fact in doctrine to deny the character of God, the meaning of languages, and ultimately the importance of humanity. We forget we are the bad guys of this Bible narrative

    Platonist are more in line as the Gnostic, spiritual is good therefore all physical is bad.
    Modern Baptists support this in the Fall of Man, It is backward to God plan , Humanity is not the bad but the good as it is the methods Jesus saves,

    The Mormon teaching is in line with JW's and even Islam, All consider Jesus a created being and that ultimately the earth being ascended to the level of Heaven.

    Truth is we are the bad guys on death row and being offered a pardon
     
    #6 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I believe his primary question is "when" man/men knew God.

    This...

    ...was the stumbling-block, so to speak.


    In view are those who "knew" God, which some (who shall remain nameless) might think equates to being saved.So in view are men who knew God, then turned from Him and the knowledge of Him.

    So what do you say, fellas?


    God bless.
     
    #7 Darrell C, Mar 7, 2018
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    post #3 is the answer,
     
    #8 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I agree.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
    #9 Darrell C, Mar 7, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Creation reveals to all that God exists, but sinners refuse to acknowledge Him as being real to them.
     
    #10 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2018
  11. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Can we know God just from Creation?
     
    #11 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    How is the wrath of God revealed in v 18?
     
    #12 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rom 1:21
    because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,

    Does creation allow us to know (a relationship) God?
     
    #13 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Do you mean that men know God through creation (correct) or the they have a pre-natal existence during which they know God (incorrect)? I thought you had eschewed the latter opinion.
     
    #14 Martin Marprelate, Mar 7, 2018
  15. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    no , i was asking if knowing of a God through creation is sufficient?
     
    #15 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NOT in a saving sense, as that requires the special revelation of the Bible and the working of the Holy Spirit!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2018
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not to save a lost sinner!
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2018
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    No it is not. Creation is sufficient for people to know that there's a God, and they are therefore 'without excuse,' but it is insufficient for them to discover what he requires of men or what He has done to save them.
     
    #18 Martin Marprelate, Mar 7, 2018
  19. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    so this verse(s) is saying something different because clearly they reject Him as God.

    maybe?
     
    #19 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  20. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    It also says
    Rom 1:18

    ΒΆ
    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    I do not think creation shows the wrath of God
     
    #20 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
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