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Zigactly! And it can also be in the sense of 'the dog' 'the cat' 'the horse' as one type

Yeah, Mathew 16:18, and Matthew 18 church discipline... are the same church type. Local and visible. Like you showed in the earlier post: Mathew 16:18 is as the institutional sense of church. For eg . 'The horse, the bar, the dog, the cat' Singular standing for plural:) Mathew 18.. as the...

Jesus says He will build His church in Mathew 16:18.. then in Matthew 18, refers to a church that can be spoken to, with a process for church discipline. Would He start with something entirely different to what He refers to later?

They were the main driver under John Wimber for charismatic becoming popular

Many also, when you speak of the church not being all redeemed, assume you are denying them salvation. Since they equate joining the big C church with salvation, and we would deny that entity exists (at least until there is one body in heaven).. they think we are saying they aren't saved...

Yeah charismatic and I think were precursors to the Vineyard movement, ie Lonnie Frisbee

I've tried discussing a pure local body of Christ in other forums, but people just blindly refer to 'the church' usually with a big C..thinking of all redeemed. They don't really think about whether it's Biblical. You can conceive of all believers as a body... if by body you mean a collection...

I started at Christchurch Family Baptist..non calvinist IFB.. in 2004, that was independent missionary Baptist. Planted by a pastor who was trained in the ABA in Arkansas, from Meadow Lake Missionary Baptist. He had a mentor from Little Rock Arkansas, Landol Swinney. Landol was friends with...

I'm part of a Fellowship Bible Baptist church in Christchurch, New Zealand. Oldest IFB church in Christchurch I think. Looks like we may have very similar doctrine to you :)

What I've gleaned, is both Anabaptists and independent Baptists have quite a wide variation in amongst themselves. So, someone says Anabaptists, and immediately comes to mind are groups separate from Baptists, because they are looking at the likes of Mennonites compared to Baptist churches...

I have the book History of the Baptists by John.T.Christian. It fleshes out the references and adds others that you see in the Trail of Blood

The thing is, the references in the likes of the Trail of Blood, are more fully fleshed out in books like My Church, by J.Moody and the Battle for Baptist History by I.K.Cross. If we reject that historical evidence, what is the basis?

This is also what I have learned. What is the basis for rejecting this link from some ifb churches to Anabaptists? Is it confounding groups with one another that actually aren't connected? Like saying Baptists started in the Reformation, when actually that was a different set of baptist groups?

Yeah, because they are both called the Baptist union I assumed the same organization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_Churches_of_New_Zealand Baptist world alliance. Baptist union in nz was just in nz

It would be the non calvinist ifb churches. If they aren't Calvinist though.. how would they originate in the Reformation? They usually aren't Armenian either.

Are they the same thing?

UK Baptist union? New Zealand Baptist churches also part of the UK Baptist union.

Yeah..the ideal would be a core group with the pastor to meet and plan, hold each other accountable etc.. with the elders there. Some ifb churches have that. Still one local church..but with that core leadership group

Yeah good point..the pastor can be aloof and put on a pedastool by some in the congregation and there is very little help for congregation members who have issues like you say. Guess there is a place, if you have the capability, to have another pastor or deacon who can take that kind of issues...