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So the original question remains. Where does Scripture state that the church began at the resurrection? Not infer it. Not imply it. Not build a chain of reasoning. State it. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all...

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. This is not a church, it is THE church of Jesus Christ and the only way to enter in is through Jesus Christ. and this context tells us that...

JD, I’m going to stay strictly on the point I made. I said Scripture never states that the church began at the resurrection. You replied, “Actually, I think it does more than one time.” If that is the case, then please show the verse. I am not sure why the original thread was unceremoniously...

Actually, I think it does more than one time. First, the op makes the case that the choosing of the apostles was the beginning of the church because it is a called out assembly and is the time of the commissioning of the twelve apostles, though one was a devil. This logic comes, at least in...

According to your reasoning the history of the church should record occasions for the exercise of the word of wisdom gift. Also the word of knowledge Also the gift of faith Also the gifts of healing Also the working of miracles Also prophecy Also discerning spirits Also different kinds of...

Please don't be upset but there were 2500 years Adam to Moses without a single miracle. Since the apostolic era ended in 70 AD with the death of the apostles and the dispersion of the nation Israel there has not been a single miracle performed by a man. The epistles were written to instruct the...

Hi Ascetic Xl. I know this is shocking to learn. How many Christians do you know personally who have done mighty miracles? They were raising the dead during the apostolic era. Who do you know who has been raised from the dead and who it was who raised them? God does many more miraculous works...

Actually I did not assert that miracles ended with what I call the kingdom. I do not believe that at all. What I asserted is that men are not empowered by God to work miracles after the apostolic age. I asserted that men did not work miracles at any time before Moses. Few people in history have...

Jn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. Anthony, Your argument makes no sense. It is illogical. It is unreasonable. The OT does not prophesy an assembly, it predicts a kingdom...

Psalm 118 as well as all the psalms is a prophecy. Lk 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. 13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named...

Anthony, you of course likewise can hold to your own interpretation but the scriptures does not allow for the choosing of the apostles in Luke 6 to be the laying of the foundation. There is no support for that interpretation in Luke 6 or Mt 10 or anywhere else. We are plainly told what they were...

My position on the the cornerstone in scripture is that God is most definitely saying that the person of Jesus Christ is the cornerstone. I have not said I believe he is not. The question you have raised is "when" is he the cornerstone. You say it is when the apostles were chosen in Luke 6. You...

There is no evidence in Ps 118 that a grouping of apostles are in view here. The one phrase in the psalm one can use to connect the church to the prophecy and that is the actual phrase in verse 22. You may not and probably will not agree with how I believe one should read and understand this...

Where are we told those two things?

Jesus Christ is the Rock all through the scriptures, OT and NT, but he was not the Rock who was smitten until the blood , the Spirit, and the life ran out and he was buried. He became the head of the corner. This alone is the context in which he is the chief cornerstone and the stone upon which...

Anthony, this makes twice that you have suggested I am guilty of conflating two categories of scriptures when I am being consistent with what we are told about the church. It is quite possible if not probable that we define the church differently. You see it as an organization and I see it as an...

You do understand, iI hope, that the church of Jesus Christ is a body in the image of Jesus Christ who is in the image of God, a trinity. He is not in the image of God because of location but by nature. The church is one body in the imagery of a physical body (1 Cor 12) where there are many...

ky, thanks for your input. I always enjoy your comments. Samuel said quite a few things that are recorded in the scriptures. I said this: Would you take a moment and cut and paste where Samuel spoke about the church of Jesus Christ. How could the church be a mystery of Christ if all the OT...

This is the first point I responded to: Here is Col 1:18 again; 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Here is a verse that helps it make sense: RO 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he...

No! The church of Jesus Christ is not revealed by the prophets of the OT, not because it's creation was not the eternal purpose of God but because it was hidden during those days by God. If it was hidden by God, that just simply means it was there in the OT unrevealed. Okay, if it was there how...