λατρευω as Worship in Rom.1:9

[TCGreek]

When Paul uses λατρευω here in Romans 1:9, does he have worship on his mind? Does he understand his preaching of the gospel, εν τω ευαγγελιω του υιου αυτου , as worship to God?

 

[John of Japan]

Naw, I think "serve" is the right translation here. He talks about "in the Gospel," which could be instrumental, but any way you look at it I'm having a hard time imagining "worshipping...in the Gospel. (My two yen worth.) :type:

 

[TCGreek]

Naw, I think "serve" is the right translation here. He talks about "in the Gospel," which could be instrumental, but any way you look at it I'm having a hard time imagining "worshipping...in the Gospel. (My two yen worth.) :type:

Well, I see your point. But I think the relative pronoun ᾧ , antecedent being ὁ θεός , being the object of λατρεύω is the key. "Whom" I worship ἐν τῷ πνεύματί μου, "with my spirit" or "in my spirit." Yes, I too will take "in the gospel" instrumental.

Why then do we translate λατρεύω as "worship" in Phil.3:3? Several versions have "worship": KJV, NASB, NIV, ESV.

 

[Deacon]

Why then do we translate λατρεύω as "worship" in Phil.3:3? Several versions have "worship": KJV, NASB, NIV, ESV.

It’s 3 AM and I can’t sleep; my left shoulder’s acting up; getting old is tough.

Curiously I would have guessed that Paul would have used some form of διάκονοι rather than this word.

Re: it’s use in the LXX, TDONT notes:
“With a few unimportant exceptions λατρεύω is always used for the Hebrew עָבַד.
But this word is also very frequently rendered δουλεύειν.
It is to be noted that the books which frequently have λατρεύειν use it mostly when עבד has a religious reference, cf. Ex. 3:12; 4:23; 7:16, 26; 8:16; 9:1, 13; 10:3, 7, 8, 24, 26; 20:5; 23:24, 25; Dt. 4:19, 28; 5:9; 6:13; 7:4, 16; Jos. 22:27: 24:14–24, 31.
When the ref. is to human relations, the rendering is always δουλεύειν, cf. Ex. 14:5, 12; 21:2, 6; Dt. 15:12, 18; Ju. 3:8, 14; 9:28, 38; and consistently in Gn.
TDONT (4:60).

Rob

 

[John of Japan]

Well, gentlemen, what is needed for latreuw is an English word "worship/serve." But unfortunately we don't have such a word, so we have to make a choice. (No such word in Japanese, either, alas.)

TC, good point about Phil. 3:3, since it is a quite similar passage. However, en tw euaggeliw still solves it for me as "serve." To me, context is everything with this word.

But I think the relative pronoun ᾧ , antecedent being ὁ θεός , being the object of λατρεύω is the key. "Whom" I worship ἐν τῷ πνεύματί μου, "with my spirit" or "in my spirit."

I'm not sure how this matters. We serve God as the object and we worship God as the object of the sentence. 2 Tim. 1:3 is a similar construction, and all the translations I checked had "serve" there.

A similar phrase, ἐν πνεύματί μου, occurs in 2 Cor. 2:13 in connection with Paul's activity of searching for Titus. Also, "in the Spirit (or spirit)" occurs 26 times in the English NT in many different contexts, sometimes connected with various activities.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Wow fellas, you guys impress me. The only Greek I know runs a deli back in Alabama .

But, is true worship not service, or worship/serve as John puts it. If we understand that there is no worship without service does that make the matter somewaht moot since there is no perfect English word?

 

[TCGreek]

Well, gentlemen, what is needed for latreuw is an English word "worship/serve." But unfortunately we don't have such a word, so we have to make a choice. (No such word in Japanese, either, alas.)

TC, good point about Phil. 3:3, since it is a quite similar passage. However, en tw euaggeliw still solves it for me as "serve." To me, context is everything with this word.

I'm not sure how this matters. We serve God as the object and we worship God as the object of the sentence. 2 Tim. 1:3 is a similar construction, and all the translations I checked had "serve" there.

A similar phrase, ἐν πνεύματί μου, occurs in 2 Cor. 2:13 in connection with Paul's activity of searching for Titus. Also, "in the Spirit (or spirit)" occurs 26 times in the English NT in many different contexts, sometimes connected with various activities.

I know the translation philosophy of the Message, but I found it interesting here: "And God, whom I so love to worship and serve by spreading the good news of his Son."

Yes, 2 Cor 2:13 seems similar with the article instead on the preposition en:ουκ εσχηκα ανεσιν τω πνευματι μου

At Romans 12:2 some versions render latreia as "worship."

Are we to notice a marked difference here between proskuneo and latreuo? γεγραπται γαρ κυριον τον θεον σου προσκυνησεις και αυτω μονω λατρευσεις : "For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve? (Matt. 4:10).

I will concede on Rom. 1:9, but with this one thought that to Paul his preaching is both service and worship to God, for latreuo/latreia gives the sense that all of life is service/worship to God.

 

[John of Japan]

I know the translation philosophy of the Message, but I found it interesting here: "And God, whom I so love to worship and serve by spreading the good news of his Son."

Hey, I don't want to have to agree with the Message!!! (Too late.)

Are we to notice a marked difference here between proskuneo and latreuo? γεγραπται γαρ κυριον τον θεον σου προσκυνησεις και αυτω μονω λατρευσεις : "For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve? (Matt. 4:10).

In the vast majority (maybe all) of the times I've run across proskuneo, the meaning has been a physical act of bowing down. Living in an idolatrous culture makes me especially aware of this meaning of worship. I recently related in another thread how a Japanese lady once bowed down (zarei, seated bow, when we were standing) to another missionary and me and said, "You are like gods." We immediately objected of course. This was not a normal standing bow in greeting. So when I see proskuneo in Scripture I immediately have a mental picture of bowing down to an idol or to a picture of a dead person.

I will concede on Rom. 1:9, but with this one thought that to Paul his preaching is both service and worship to God, for latreuo/latreia gives the sense that all of life is service/worship to God.

Amen!