There was a poster here who is in need school that would agree with me. He got a question incorrect on a test for not answering the question in support of drinking in moderation.
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1 Cor 10:31 Giving glory to God
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There was a poster here who is in need school that would agree with me. He got a question incorrect on a test for not answering the question in support of drinking in moderation.
Replace Alcohol with Pot and you have the very argument that people that are pushing for legalizing marijuana make. Considering that the states that have legalized it started down the medicinal route before making it just legal.
FTR I am against smoking marijuana and voted against it in Colorado when I lived there and in AZ as it was on the ballot this year down here.
Then maybe you should get off your hobby horse of pushing alcohol onto people here.
As I would tell my brother, don't push your "liberty" onto me. It's just legalism in the opposite direction.
You are contradicting yourself here.
Either Alcohol is not a drug and therefore can have no medicinal value or it is a drug that has some medicinal value. You can't have it both ways.
Definition of Drug
Drugs are substances classified in accordance to their effect. Alcohol is a depressant (scientists now consider its initial effect to be a stimulant). Man makes alcohol. The benefits of alcohol are now more often disputed (it's dangers compared to benefits and more effective avaliable means to obtain that benefit).
Marijuana is a plant (something God created). Unlike Mikes, pit is not a man made drug. And pot has several medical uses.
Alcohol is considered by many one of the more severe curses on our nation today. I think many victims of alcoholic parents are inclined to see the drug as a curse. Probably many alcoholic see it the same way.
You seem very legalistic towards those who smoke pot to Gods glory. Why? Are not all things permissible? Is there a verse declaring marijuana a sin?
Alcohol is a drug.
You do not suggest wine's use for Communion in the OP. Looking at the context of the other examples, your suggested use is for pleasure.
No, I don't drink Pepsi (except as a last resort). I do like Coke (the kind you drink). But it is not so important to me that I would never drink soft drinks if it offended others with whom I am associated. Yet you told us that alcohol was so important to you that you chose it over the conviction of your own wife that it was sinful. Soft drinks are not so important to me that I would start thread after thread trying to justify my drinking of the beverage. Yet this one thing, alcohol, seems to have become a priority in your life. In our culture, soft drinks are not associated with sinfulness. But alcohol often is. Soft drinks may be abused in terms of gluttony and sugar intake but they are not a curse on our nation in terms of it's abuse becoming the cause of 26.9% of our citizens over 18 binge drinking, 88,000 deaths, and $249 billion economic burden on our nation. That would be alcohol.
In 2012 3.3 million.....get that....3.3 MILLION....deaths worldwide were associated with alcohol.
In 2014 the World Health Organization associated alcohol with over 200 diseases and injury related health concerns.
In the age group 20-39, alcohol accounts for 25% of deaths.
Over 10% of our children live with parents who struggle with alcohol.
In 2013, of the 72,559 liver disease deaths among individuals ages 12 and older, 45.8 percent involved alcohol.
Among all cirrhosis deaths in 2013, 47.9 percent were alcohol related.
Drinking alcohol increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx, larynx, liver, and breast.
The passage that you provided gave you what it means to do these things to the "glory of God". You don't have to leave the passage to find a definition to apply. Does it uplift God to others, or is it an indulgence?
Know that this year in our nation alcohol will contribute to the deaths of over 80,000 people, over 3 million world wide, that it will contribute to over 7 million children in America experiencing the struggle of living with an alcoholic parent, and thousands will be inflicted by disease because of alcohol. And know that you are taking a part in this curse.
Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)
To clarify, I don't really have anything against a person having a drink. But the justification here, thread after thread, of drinking "strong drink" is beyond the pale. I'm not opposed to drinking, but I am opposed to the justification of drinking. It not only demonstrates that a problem exists (in that it is felt the practice needs justification) but it also skews the definition of Christian liberty.
The proof that there is an issue here was given long ago when alcohol was placed above the convictions of a spouse. We cannot hold a liberty, such as drinking alcohol (or soft drinks, or orange juice, or whatever) in such regard that it becomes something that needs to be justified above the convictions of others with whom we associate. Christian liberty is exercised only by setting it aside for the benefit of another, hence showing the love of Christ in putting another's convictions over our own desires.
The proof that there is an issue here was given long ago when alcohol was placed above the convictions of a spouse. We cannot hold a liberty, such as drinking alcohol (or soft drinks, or orange juice, or whatever) in such regard that it becomes something that needs to be justified above the convictions of others with whom we associate. Christian liberty is exercised only by setting it aside for the benefit of another, hence showing the love of Christ in putting another's convictions over our own desires.
The facts you have quoted are associated with alcohol abuse and not with those that drink in moderation and can control themselves.
Actually I never bought a drink, nor drank in front of her, so I would say I did lay down my liberty for her sake.
Correct but it can also be used in church.
That is not laying down your liberty. Laying down your liberty would have been denying yourself the "right" to drink alcohol, as anything short of that would undermine the family unit. It was,ultimately, a choice not between drinking and abstaining but between your family and your desires.
You have taken a very legalistic stance. Your actions are justified because you enjoy alcohol and look to the letter of the Law for justification. Those who do the exact same thing, but with a different substance (pot), are condemned because you decide they are wrong. When you look beyond the action and into the heart of the matter, you are faced with your desire and the convictions of others.
The alcohol itself was never, and is not now, the issue.
Sigh... can I ever get it right?
No. We are only human, after all. Life is, or should be, a process of repentance. We are never more wrong than when we think we got it all right.
Maybe I need quality time with a Gremlin!
That is not laying down Liberty. It is sneaking around, and it is choosing alcohol over the convictions of your Wife.
John - let's face it. This subject is NOT about glorifying God. It's your attempt to justify your personal like of alcoholic beverages, and some sneaking little voice in the back of your head that's questioning whether it's right or wrong.
So you've been looking for past religious figures who drank; verses that don't appear to condemn drinking; etc., etc. in order to justify what you want to do.
This thread and the others aren't about right or wrong; they're about what YOU want to do. You're simply looking for some biblical way to justify it, and make others agree that it's acceptable to do it.
First, it's already been biblically shown that you can do it: Romans 14, given to you multiple times.
But there's a difference between "can" and "should."
Second, just forget about getting others to agree about it being acceptable. Some will, some won't. Stop looking for others to validate your actions. As long as YOU believe it's biblical, then stop worrying about what others think, because some will always agree with you, and some never will.
But the *very first* thing you have to do is start being honest: These threads have been about YOU, not God, or glorifying Him. In that regard, you *must* consider whether your desire to justify your actions is dying to self, or focusing on self (and thus, whether your motives are selfish, and you should give that some long, hard, deep thought).
So you've been looking for past religious figures who drank; verses that don't appear to condemn drinking; etc., etc. in order to justify what you want to do.
This thread and the others aren't about right or wrong; they're about what YOU want to do. You're simply looking for some biblical way to justify it, and make others agree that it's acceptable to do it.
First, it's already been biblically shown that you can do it: Romans 14, given to you multiple times.
But there's a difference between "can" and "should."
Second, just forget about getting others to agree about it being acceptable. Some will, some won't. Stop looking for others to validate your actions. As long as YOU believe it's biblical, then stop worrying about what others think, because some will always agree with you, and some never will.
But the *very first* thing you have to do is start being honest: These threads have been about YOU, not God, or glorifying Him. In that regard, you *must* consider whether your desire to justify your actions is dying to self, or focusing on self (and thus, whether your motives are selfish, and you should give that some long, hard, deep thought).
Nah....more time in discipleship, both in the Word and within the Body of Christ. We all need that.
I've caught myself quite often looking at Scripture legalistically. There are errors people may believe (truly errors, not just my understanding
) that I should, in love, overlook rather than try to "correct". We often look at Scripture as conveying truth solely through reasoning and rational discourse. But we too often ignore that Scripture also conveys truth in the form of images, themes, and examples. Most of all, Scripture conveys truth in the person of Christ. What is more important, correct doctrine or people? My answer is people, not that correct doctrine is unimportant or even something on which we should compromise. But the best doctrine in the world is blasphemy if it is conveyed apart from the love of Christ.- Status