1 Cor 15:29 and Baptized for the Dead

[Brother Bob]

I can't accept the Mormon explanation, nor can I accept the Pagan explanation. First of all, I don't think Paul would endorse the Pagan religion and second there is "no repentance after death".
When all of us were baptized it was for the dead, so we could be made alive in Christ Jesus. (Spiritual baptism)

 

[npetreley]

Would any of you be baptized for those who are already dead? I doubt it.

I would. I would do it in their honor if, for some reason, I believed they were saved but were not baptised. I have no confidence that it would be effectual for anything, because the Bible gives no instructions for doing it. But I would go through the motion just to honor that person. I don't know of anyone who baptizes who looks at it that way, though, so I don't think the occasion or opportunity would ever present itself. And that's fine, too.

 

[HankD]

I believe Watchman has the view which seems most plausible.
A view which I adopted a few years ago and is held by a few authors (I don't remember who at the moment).

Paul makes the statement

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:​

The dead: a collective noun where Christ (presumably) is among if He rose not.

Then Paul in effect asks: why are you being baptized (a picture of death burial and resurrection) for (in the name) of a dead man (Christ) if the dead will not be raised?

Or I suppose he could have asked - why come up out of the water if Christ is among the dead?
Stay under and go and join Him.


HankD

 

[Brother Bob]

Watchman may be right, but it seems to me we are not baptized for Christ's death, but our own death in sin, and Christ's life which is how we obtain the victory.

I do like watchman's answer more than any other on here except mine, for we both are talking about over coming death through Christ's resurrection. I just don't think we are baptized to overcome Christ's death, but our own death in sin. At least its much better than Paul endorsing Pagan religion, or the Mormons.

 

[Zenas]

there is "no repentance after death".

Well said, but this raises the question of what Jesus meant in Matthew 12:32 "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

 

[npetreley]

Well said, but this raises the question of what Jesus meant in Matthew 12:32 "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Toss this one in there, too:

1 Peter 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
there is "no repentance after death".


Well said, but this raises the question of what Jesus meant in Matthew 12:32 "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

I take it to mean the resurrection when many will plead for repentance.

1 Peter 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Simply means the gospel was preached to them under the Law while they were alive! It plainly says they were alive then, but dead now.

 

[npetreley]

Simply means the gospel was preached to them under the Law while they were alive! It plainly says they were alive then, but dead now.

Where does it say that?

 

[DHK]

I can't accept the Mormon explanation, nor can I accept the Pagan explanation. First of all, I don't think Paul would endorse the Pagan religion and second there is "no repentance after death".
When all of us were baptized it was for the dead, so we could be made alive in Christ Jesus. (Spiritual baptism)

Where does it say that Paul ever endorsed a Pagan religion.
On Mars Hill Paul quoted from a Greek poet. Does that mean he endorses all Greek poets?
In Titus 1, Paul quotes from a Cretian philosopher. Does he endorse Cretian phisolophy?
Where do you get this reasoning that he endorses a pagan religion?

 

[Bro Tony]

In the context of what Paul is saying in this whole chapter could it be that when he said, "why do some of you baptize for the dead?" That he was referring to the belief by some in no resurrection, that when people die they cease to be. So if that is the case then why would you baptize anyone into Jesus who is dead and did not rise, or why would you baptize anyone whose eternity is one of non-existant. In other words there is no need to baptize those who are going to die and cease to exist. The act of baptism reveals a belief in the promise of the resurrection. It makes no since to baptize anyone if you don't believe in the resurrection.

 

[Brother Bob]

Where does it say that Paul ever endorsed a Pagan religion.
On Mars Hill Paul quoted from a Greek poet. Does that mean he endorses all Greek poets?
In Titus 1, Paul quotes from a Cretian philosopher. Does he endorse Cretian phisolophy?
Where do you get this reasoning that he endorses a pagan religion?
__________________
DHK

I didn't say it, I thought that is what you said.

You may be right. That is why I favor my original explanation, in which I gave you the context (the resurrection), and why Paul was referring to a pagan practice. Because you couldn't not find the evidence of that practice doesn't mean that the practice didn't exist.
__________________
DHK

I think I misunderstood you DHK, sorry for the mishap. Please forgive. I went back and read all your post and looks like you were just using the veiw of some to prove a point.

No, it is just one of many views. There are some others views which are also plausible. Nicodemus referred to some kind of reincarnation (not that he believed it), when he said, "Shall he enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?)"
__________________
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Simply means the gospel was preached to them under the Law while they were alive! It plainly says they were alive then, but dead now.

npet; Where does it say that?

Hebrews, chapter 4

1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2: For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

 

[npetreley]

Hebrews, chapter 4

1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2: For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Oh, my mistake. I didn't realize Hebrews 4:1-2 came right before 1 Peter 4:6, so I didn't make the connection as to who they-them were. I'll get out the scissors and paste and correct my Bible.

I'm teasing you Bob. There may be a connection there, but when you said it says it plainly, I searched the context of 1 Peter and didn't see anything of the kind.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think there is room for "there may" when it is plain its talking about the ones led by Moses.

 

[npetreley]

I don't think there is room for "there may" when it is plain its talking about the ones led by Moses.

I haven't looked at it carefully enough to say, but you're probably right.

Edit: I mean you ARE right that he's talking about the ones led by Moses in Hebrews. I haven't looked at it enough to see if that's definitely who we're talking about in 1 Peter, but it probably is.