1 Corinthians 12-14

[Naomi]

Granny,
I know we disagree in our theological position. Setting our differences aside, we serve the same God. I am truly sorry that your son is involved in a church that perhaps is a cult. A church that controls it's member's and separates family members. This is a problem that can only be solved through prayer. I have some dear friends that are involved in a church, where the pastor is very controlling of the member's. If you leave the church (not, God) but the church, you are considered a divisive person. The other members will not fellowship with you any longer. This is very sad. There are times when we need to just place it in God's hands, and pray, and totally trust that The Holy Spirit will bring them back. My family and I left this church and were talked about, and "dis-fellowshipped". We never spoke one word against the leadership there. We never vindicated ourselves when we heard the lies that were being spoken about us. We just prayed for them. I cannot tell you how many phone calls we have received from member's who have left that church. Jesus was our biggest vindicator! The truth was revealed, and we did not even have to defend ourself. That is what prayer does. I just wanted to encourage you to keep praying for your son, and do not try and do this in the flesh. The truth will be revealed, and the best thing about it, is your character will not be damaged. If we would have gossiped about the Pastor, and went back and caused division and strife, I really do not think it would have ended up like it did. Jesus can do a much better job of revealing the truth, if we just trust Him to do so. So many times I wanted to "set the record straight" myself. Yet, I knew I had to truly forgive, so
God could work in my own life. Bitterness could have ate me up inside. I was hurt in the flesh, and very wounded. I had to make a choice real quick, about how to handle this. The flesh and the spirit are at odds. If we abide in the spirit, He will make our crooked paths straight.
I really and truly feel for you, because we still have another couple that is in that church. We love them so deeply, and it still brings me to tears when I think about them. I pray for you, Granny, that you will give it to God 100%, and not rely on yourself to fix the situation. I am not saying you are doing this now, but it is so easy to do it through our own understanding.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers.
Naomi

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

For you to tell me that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues has ceased, is so sad DHK. You don't know what you are missing. Or, do you? I have wondered, if at some time or other, if you have spoke in tongues and maybe that is why you fight it so much. Maybe not wanting to admit to yourself that you have blasphemed against the Holy Ghost. Just my thought!

The "Promise" Mee, is salvation, something you don't understand and can't explain using 65 books of the Bible. Why is that MEE?
It was salvation that was promised. The promise referred to in the previous verse was the remission of sins, and in the following verse: they that gladly received his word (saved) were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. The promise is salvation.

You only quoted part of the verse MEE. Look at it in its context:
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
---Was the sun turned to darkness, and the moon into blood? Did these other wonders spoken of in verse 19 take place? What is he talking about here, and why does he mention these things? The prophesy had two fulfillments: one at the day of Pentecost, and then ultimately at the Millennial Kingdom when Christ comes again. In both cases Peter is addressing the Jews. The tongues were a sign for the Jews, the Jews that did not believe that the gospel message was for them. They had rejected the Messiah. The promise of salvation was afar off to their generations also (in the Millennial Kingdom), when these other signs will take place. The gentile believers are only partakers in this grace because God has set His nation, Israel on the shelf for a period of time, because of their unbelief. The promise of salvation is now to all who will believe. Read the rest of Peter's message and see how directly he accuses the Jews and lays the blame on them for crucifying Christ, and rejecting Him. The promise is salvation.

The only thing that is available to the believer today is to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation, and to be constantly filled with the Holy Spirit, by living a life of constant obedience and submission to Him. There is no second blessing. I am speaking on a practical basis here. There are many other functions of the Holy Spirit for those who want to be technical: sealing of the believer, for example.

Here is the account MEE:
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

#1. Something audible was heard. What was it? Does that happen when you speak in tongues?
#2. Something visible was seen. (Vs.3). What was it? Does that happen when you speak in tongues?
#3. Something was spoken that could be understood by others. Does that happen when you speak in tongues?

This was a one time event in history, never to be repeated again in history. It never was. You base your experiences on the experiences of people who lived two thousand years ago, and 1900 years ago the gift that they had ceased. You have a counterfeit from Satan, and can't prove it otherwise. You can't even demonstrate the way of salvation outside of the Book of Acts? Who would believe the authenticity of such an experience with a theology such as that?
I am not fighting anything MEE, I simply present the Word of God, and you say that that is blasphemy. That is exactly what Jesus accused the Pharisees of. He presented the truth of God's Word. They rejected it. It was blasphemy. It was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in its historical context because Jesus (God in the flesh) was demonstrating His divinity by both the word that He said, and the miracles that He performed, and they rejected both. Not only did they reject them, they attributed them to Satan.

What you have is not from God. You fail to demonstrate that it is from God, or in accordance with Scripture. You can't even explain salvation outside the Book of Acts. How do you know that your source is not demonic. The possibility in your case is very real. You cannot accuse me of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit--I am not God in the flesh demonstrating miracles of deity in front of you. Learn to take Scripture in its context.
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MEE:

For you to tell me that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues has ceased, is so sad DHK. You don't know what you are missing. Or, do you? I have wondered, if at some time or other, if you have spoke in tongues and maybe that is why you fight it so much. Maybe not wanting to admit to yourself that you have blasphemed against the Holy Ghost. Just my thought!

I am not fighting anything MEE, I simply present the Word of God, and you say that that is blasphemy.
DHK</font>

I didn't say that your presenting the Word of God was balsphemy. I was asking if you had ever spoke in tongues and that if you had, that you had blasphemed the Holy Ghost. Again you have twisted what I said.

Maybe you have choosen not to answer my question?

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

I was asking if you had ever spoke in tongues and that if you had, that you had blasphemed the Holy Ghost.
Maybe you have choosen not to answer my question?

No, MEE, I have never spoken in tongues, never intend to speak in tongues, believe that all (modern-day) speaking in tongues is directly contrary to the Word of God.
DHK

 

[Briguy]

Hi DHK, I had a thought regarding the "that which is perfect" discussion. This just came to me as I was mowing my lawn. The scripture says that we know in part and then, that which is perfect comes right? Here is what came to me. God's word, spoken by prophets of old and written down as the OT, spoken by Jesus, written down by several people, Pauls letters as well as the writings of other NT people are all PERFECT. God's words are pure truth and have always been perfect. To say that something is perfect in part but then becomes wholly perfect seems to be very unlogical. (perfect is perfect no matter what the form) I still like the idea of that being "perfect" being when the curse, which we know caused the worlds imperfection, being lifted. Food for thought anyway, I guess I should mow the lawn more often. Though maybe you will tell me I better get a new mower

In Christ,
Brian

[ July 15, 2002, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]

 

[SolaScriptura]

Just answer me this: What was the purpose of tongues on Pentecost? Wasn't it so that all the people there could understand the message? It certainly wasn't so the apostles could look cool and be like "I speak in tongues and you don't." If someone really has the gift of tongues, then why don't they go over to Africa (or some other place) and use it?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by SolaScriptura:
Just answer me this: What was the purpose of tongues on Pentecost? Wasn't it so that all the people there could understand the message? It certainly wasn't so the apostles could look cool and be like "I speak in tongues and you don't." If someone really has the gift of tongues, then why don't they go over to Africa (or some other place) and use it?

The purpose of tongues on Pentecost was quite clear. It was a sign to the unbelieving Jew (1Cor.14:21,22). It was to authenticate the messenger and the message, that both were from God. This was a message that the Jews had better not reject, else judgement would come. Thus signs accompanied it.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by The Briguy:
To say that something is perfect in part but then becomes wholly perfect seems to be very unlogical. (perfect is perfect no matter what the form)

The Old English world "perfect," as in the Greek, means "complete" When the Word of God was completed, and it was, then those gifts which were in part (given for a partial period of time) passed away.
DHK

 

[Briguy]

DHK, If you are right then my latest thought really doesn't apply. I will double check the Greek to be sure, just for my own satisfation. Thanks for the insight. I always appreciate your posts. (you know, you just may have the gift of "wisdom" )

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Briguy]

DHK, I looked into the word in question and found the translation from Greek is better represented by the word "Mature" rather then "complete". Though similar they are not the same. If you think about it the word Mature in a full sense can represent my idea as well if not better then yours. I need to do more reseach as to why "perfect is used in the various translations before I give up the idea that it doesn't mean "perfect" in the traditional sense.

Learning in Christ,
Brian