No I don't. Just because something is used elsewhere doesn't negate my point, which is based on the context in this passage. Bread is not always used as bread in which you eat. I could go on.
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1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach total inability
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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No I don't. Just because something is used elsewhere doesn't negate my point, which is based on the context in this passage. Bread is not always used as bread in which you eat. I could go on.
Sigh, read the op
Ephesians 2:1: "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins."
Ephesians 2:4,5 : "But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions --it is by grace you have been saved."
Colossians 2:13 : "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made
you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins."
John 5:21 : "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."
The natural person is dead, perishing, in need of life. Christ gives spiritual life to those of His choosing.
The people in 1 Cor. 18 and 2:14 are in the same state. They are dead in their natural state. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of God abiding within is perishing. They are dead in their sins needing a spiritual resurrection.
These people are lost, without hope and without God in this world. They consider the message of the cross (the Gospel) to be foolishness. They don't understand spiritual things, they have no spiritual discernment because the are devoid of the Spirit of God. The natural person is a dead person. They are not merely immature Christians. Even a spiritually immature Christian has the Holy Spirit. And they do not consider the message of the cross foolishness.
(All Scripture cited is from the NIV.)
Ephesians 2:4,5 : "But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions --it is by grace you have been saved."
Colossians 2:13 : "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made
you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins."
John 5:21 : "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."
The natural person is dead, perishing, in need of life. Christ gives spiritual life to those of His choosing.
The people in 1 Cor. 18 and 2:14 are in the same state. They are dead in their natural state. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of God abiding within is perishing. They are dead in their sins needing a spiritual resurrection.
These people are lost, without hope and without God in this world. They consider the message of the cross (the Gospel) to be foolishness. They don't understand spiritual things, they have no spiritual discernment because the are devoid of the Spirit of God. The natural person is a dead person. They are not merely immature Christians. Even a spiritually immature Christian has the Holy Spirit. And they do not consider the message of the cross foolishness.
(All Scripture cited is from the NIV.)
37818
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The term "natural man" is only used once in the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 2:14. And in contrast to the man having the Spirit of God in that context, ". . . That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
37818
Well-Known Member
Read 1 Corinthians 1:18.
37818
Well-Known Member
God draws all men, but not all men come, only His elect, ". . .For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, . . ." -- Titus 2:11 ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" -- Hebrews 10:29. God sancifies men to save them, but then there are those who resist, Acts of the Apostles 7:51. It is sanctfication which precedes faith not regeneration, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
Read vs 10
37818
Well-Known Member
Paul compares what the bemivers who were divided was doing to
Here is the problem with your interpretation. It doesn't say why the natural man doesn't receive the things of God.
Even believers at times do not listen to God and so long as a believer has a natural mind set they will continue to not receive the things of God. 2:14 does not say the natural man can only be lost. That is presumed.
Mitch, are you able to see the contrast between verse 13 and verse 14?
Verse 13 :"This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words."
That's quite an obvious difference with the person described in verse 14. Are you able to see that?
Then, the beginning of verse 15 :"The person with the Spirit..."
Again, an obvious contrast with the person in verse 14. I say 'obvious,' but I don't know if you are able to understand even when things are laid out so plainly.
To summarize: In verse 13 deals with people who are Spirit taught. They are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Verse 14 deals with a person who is not a believer: "The person without the Spirit."
Verse 15 is a believer because it says "The person with the Spirit."
Nine pages and counting!!
The OP view, 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach "total spiritual inability" have been shown and remains unrefuted.
Who are those who are perishing? Those who have rejected the gospel. If they had heard it and accepted it, it would not be foolishness. Again and again, the advocates of false doctrine simply read into scripture what they want to see.
Does "the things" mean "all the things" or "some of the things" at 1 Cor. 2:14? Some of the things, spiritual solid food (meat) because "men of flesh" can hear and respond to "spiritual milk" 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
The good news is that anyone, you included, can hear and understand the call of gospel, it is the power of God for salvation, and if you put your trust fully in Christ as God and Savior, God will credit your faith as righteousness and place you into Christ, for everyone believing into Christ shall not perish, but have eternal life.
The OP view, 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach "total spiritual inability" have been shown and remains unrefuted.
Who are those who are perishing? Those who have rejected the gospel. If they had heard it and accepted it, it would not be foolishness. Again and again, the advocates of false doctrine simply read into scripture what they want to see.
Does "the things" mean "all the things" or "some of the things" at 1 Cor. 2:14? Some of the things, spiritual solid food (meat) because "men of flesh" can hear and respond to "spiritual milk" 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
The good news is that anyone, you included, can hear and understand the call of gospel, it is the power of God for salvation, and if you put your trust fully in Christ as God and Savior, God will credit your faith as righteousness and place you into Christ, for everyone believing into Christ shall not perish, but have eternal life.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not so. ". . . the things of the Spirit of God: . . . they are spiritually discerned. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 2:14. ". . . Now we have received, . . . the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. . . ." 1 Corinthians 2:12. Duh.
I beg your pardon? What are you you trying to say?
The natural person is at enmity with God, blinded, helpless, lost, incapable of faith, dead, spiritually dead.
Someone even more authoritative did. Jesus himself told you wheats and tares would be in the Church to the end. Why don't you believe him?
No, it's clear the light is enabling rather than saving. Christ said, "Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light." Christ said while you have it walk in it before darkness overtakes you.
The implication here is enablement. I realize Calvinists believe in 2 sets of grace one that is efficacious and one that is not. Two drawings, one efficacious one not. An enlightenment that is efficacious, one that is not. A hearing that is efficacious, one that is not.
I tend to believe they'e wrong about this. I think there is good scriptural evidence that God can take the natural man out of his natural state and enable him without saving him. But this man (no longer natural) now has to respond with faith. If he resists, he will eventually find himself in darkness again and lose his opportunity. I like this passage in Hebrews.
Heb. 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
That's why gospel calls are urgent.
Heb. 3:15 while it is said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
The only enablement taught in the Scripture is in John 6:65 :
"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."
None of these will be lost. All of them will be given of the Father to Jesus. All of them will be raised up at the last day.
There is no in-between status. A person is either lost or saved. There is no gray twilight betwixt the two categories.
"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."
None of these will be lost. All of them will be given of the Father to Jesus. All of them will be raised up at the last day.
There is no in-between status. A person is either lost or saved. There is no gray twilight betwixt the two categories.
That's a misquote. He didn't make those statements is subsequent order like that. Here's what He said.
John 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
This fits perfectly with universal opportunity. No one can come unless the Father draws them (gives them opportunity, opens their eyes, opens their ears, etc.).
Other Scriptures say that those who respond in faith and are given the Spirit, cannot be lost. I agree with this also. Eternal security comes after faith and salvation (though God knows about it from eternity past).
Prove it without melding two verses out of order. Make the case from the whole chapter (maybe in a new thread). I will definitely hear you out.
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