1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach total inability

[Reformed]

This assumes that the natural man is unsaved it does not prove it.

I am not exaggerating when I state that the vast majority of non-Calvinist Protestant and Evangelical theologians believe the natural man of 1 Corinthians 2:14 is unsaved. The late Charles Ryrie, a vehement anti-Calvinist, believed this. He wrote about 1 Corinthians 2:14, "a natural man, I.e., an unsaved man." Ryrie even pointed to another passage that uses the same Greek word for "natural", Jude 19. Jude 19 reads, "These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit." ψυχικοί (psychikoi) is the exact same word as "natural" in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Its usage in Jude 19 leaves no doubt it is referring to an unsaved person. The context of the passage in Jude makes this clear:

Jude 17-19 17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

I believe the usage of ψυχικοί (psychikoi) in the New Testament is always used to describe that which is unspiritual. James uses the same word in relation to demonic forces.

James 3:15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.

Paul describes the difference between the natural and spiritual when he wrote about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

The case for the natural man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 being an unsaved man is beyond a preponderance of the evidence. It is compelling.

OK. I made my first post and then one response to your reply. I am happy to leave this as my contribution to the thread so that the other readers and participants can decide for themselves.

Edited to correct grammar mistake.

 

[kyredneck]

I see you cried to get my response deleted.

That's his M.O., he's done it as long as I've been here.

 

[Iconoclast]

This assumes that the natural man is unsaved it does not prove it.

The natural man does not have the Spirit of God, ie, he is none of His=unsaved
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Iconoclast]

No one can refute this from post 24.
pt2;
James Smith in Handfuls of Purpose - THE CHRISTIAN REVELATION. 1 Corinthians 2:9-16.

I. This Revelation cannot Possibly be the Invention of Men. The eye of man's carnal mind hath never seen it. The ear of man's worldly wisdom hath never heard it. Neither hath it ever entered into the heart of man (apart from the Holy Spirit) the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him (1 Cor 2:9), and since the beginning of the world it hath been so (Isa. 64:4). The world by wisdom knew not God (1Cor 1:21).

II. It is a Revelation from God. "But God hath revealed them unto us" (1 Cor 2:10). God only could reveal the mysteries of His suffering Son. "O the depths of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God concerning His Son" (Rom. 11:33). This is the glory of the Gospel message, that it is as true and as gracious as the God who gave it (Gal. 1:12).

 

[37818]

Regeneration is not a step in a process. It is re-generation. A new birth. A new life. A new creation. Not a jump start of the old one like the resurrection of Lazarus, yet again subject to sickness and death.

Faith and salvation are swallowed up in regeneration.

But if you think of our new life in the proper manner, as a birth, then you will soon see the notion of free will in regeneration to be a laughable one.

Faith in the gospel precedes the new birth. Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8; Acts of the Apostles 16:31.

 

[Iconoclast]

This does not prove your point and only contributes to hostilities on this board.

The verses mean exactly what they mean.
Kyred is correct.
Cannot welcome or receive means cannot.
A natural man is unsaved.
He is not saved because God has not saved him and quickened him, giving a new heart as regeneration demands
To say that unbelievers can believe without the Spirit is to not understand biblical salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

One has nothing to do with the other, however how does your response effect the op with regards to 2 Corinthians 2:14?

try Ephesians 2:1, and then 2:8-10!

 

[InTheLight]

The context of 1 Cor 2 is understanding "spiritual wisdom" (v. 6) the "hidden wisdom of God" (v. 7), the "deep things of God" (v. 10), and the "spiritual things the Holy Spirit teaches" (v. 13).

The natural man (unsaved man) does not understand these deeper things of God. But God has revealed the Gospel to everyone and the unsaved man CAN understand the Gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not exaggerating when I state that the vast majority of non-Calvinist Protestant and Evangelical theologians believe the natural man of 1 Corinthians 2:14 is unsaved. The late Charles Ryrie, a vehement anti-Calvinist, believed this. He wrote about 1 Corinthians 2:14, "a natural man, I.e., an unsaved man." Ryrie even pointed to another passage that uses the same Greek word for "natural", Jude 19. Jude 19 reads, "These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit." ψυχικοί (psychikoi) is the exact same word as "natural" in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Its usage in Jude 19 leaves no doubt it is referring to an unsaved person. The context of the passage in Jude makes this clear:

Jude 17-19 17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

I believe the usage of ψυχικοί (psychikoi) in the New Testament is always used to describe that which is unspiritual. James uses the same word in relation to demonic forces.

James 3:15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.

Paul describes the difference between the natural and spiritual when he wrote about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

The case for the natural man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 being an unsaved man is beyond a preponderance of the evidence. It is compelling.

OK. I made my first post and then one response to your reply. I am happy to leave this as my contribution to the thread so that the other readers and participants can decide for themselves.

Edited to correct grammar mistake.

The natural man per the NT also refers to those who have not been saved, as are in the fallen flesh, and not the Spirit!

 

[InTheLight]

To say that unbelievers can believe without the Spirit is to not understand biblical salvation.

No one is saying that. Show us who has said this...

 

[Yeshua1]

Faith in the gospel precedes the new birth. Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8; Acts of the Apostles 16:31.

Spiritual dead sinners have no faith though to exercise....

 

[37818]

Spiritual dead sinners have no faith though to exercise....

You are totally wrong. Everyone has belief (faith).

 

[David Kent]

. In order for spiritual birth to happen the seed has to be planted first. You compare physical with spiritual so lets finish the comparison. No seed first no birth. The gospel is the seed yet Calvinism insist that man must be born again in order to believe. How is it that man can be born again with out seed?
MB

Why don't you answer my post addressed to you. You must not be able to. Explaining the spiritual birth is to hard for you.
MB

Of course there is the seed, not that I can reply for Calvinists, I am a Particular Bapist, not a Calvinist. It is the foolishness of preaching that God uses to reach those he has chosen.
1 Corinthians 1:21

 

[Van]

Extract from the opening post:

In verse 14 the “natural person” is not a lost unregenerate person but anyone who has not chosen to use Spiritual wisdom to include believers. The Corinthian members who were divided were not using Spiritual wisdom. They were not considered by Paul to be mature. Their division was evidence of it. Paul is leading them to stop the worldly thinking, put on the mind of Christ (vs. 2:16) and leave the division.

I’m sorry but the context is not those who are not elect. The context of vs 2:14 is the elect who are not choosing to use the wisdom of God.

The purpose of the thread appears to be to refute the falsehood that 1 Corinthians 2:14 teaches "total spiritual inability." The effort is to define "natural" man not as a lost person, but an elect person not following the leading of their indwelt Holy Spirit. I reject this interpretation, although I agree 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach "total spiritual inability."

The verse says the natural man cannot understand "the things of the Spirit of God." Obviously those born anew can understand some of the things of the Spirit, so the redefinition does not fit

Calvinists, and I suppose others, interpret "the things" to mean "all the things." However the actual message, in my humble opinion, is that the natural, unregenerate, lost person cannot understand "some of the things of the Spirit" referring to spiritual solid food (meat) because a person must be indwelt to grasp as they mature spiritual solid food.

I think this view is validated by 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, were Paul spoke to the newborn believers "as to men of flesh." I believe "men of flesh" refers to the same people as "natural man" in verse 14. Thus since Paul uses spiritual milk, not solid food, natural mean can understand some of the things of the Spiirit, spiritual milk, which includes the gospel.

 

[Revmitchell]

Extract from the opening post:



The effort is to define "natural" man not as a lost person, but an elect person not following the leading of their indwelt Holy Spirit.

I didnt say that at all.

 

[MB]

The natural man per the NT also refers to those who have not been saved, as are in the fallen flesh, and not the Spirit!

Prove mans flesh has fallen?
MB

 

[Van]

I didnt say that at all.

Good Grief, Sir read the first line in the quote.

 

[Rippon2]

NIV: The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

NET : The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned,

 

[Rippon2]

"The natural man ….has not received the Holy Spirit....lacking the Spirit of God he cannot apprehend spiritual truths." (The First Epistle To The Corinthians by C.K. Barrett p.77)

 

[Rippon2]

I'm sure 1 Cor. 1:18 has been brought to your attention before, however, here it is again :

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (NIV)

That very unbeliever in 2:14 who regards spiritual matters as foolishness, is a person who is perishing. The message of the cross is considered as only foolishness to this Spiritless person.