1 Corinthians 7:12

[Skandelon]

John the Apostle was imprisoned for preaching "The Word of God" (Revelation 1:9) which was the Scriptures.

Did I deny that the scriptures taught the word of God, just as John did? But we don't put John on the same level of Christ do we?

The scriptures testify of HIM with divine authority, just as John testified of HIM as the authority of an apostle, but we don't worship the scriptures and we don't worship John. We worship THE WORD, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Listen, I really don't take issue with people who refer the scriptures as the word of God, because as I explained in another thread earlier, I'm a reasonable person who understands the differing connotations. And I know you and the others here don't worship the Bible or think its really on the same level with Christ in that manner. It's just a title you grew up hearing all your life, just as I did and it signifies the important divine nature of the scriptures as being authored by God's special revelation and in that manner it is the word of God, but I just think the title of Word is uniquely Christ's and thus the distinction is necessary and should be able to be drawn without raising such ire.

 

[Skandelon]

Straw man

How so? What did I say that was misrepresentative of your view? I'd be glad to recant if I misrepresented you.

I know but that is the problem. Your thinking is contrary to the Word.

Really. Let's review.

1. Scriptures don't refer to themselves with this title.
2. Jesus doesn't refer to scriptures with this title.
3. I don't refer to scriptures with this title.

Sounds like I'm more in line with both The Word and the scriptures.

 

[mandym]

How so? What did I say that was misrepresentative of your view? I'd be glad to recant if I misrepresented you.

Would you rather read the book or meet the author? The book is meant to introduce you to its author, not to be the end in and of itself. We don't worship the scriptures...at least we shouldn't. We do worship Christ and yet you have just put them on the same level.

Really. Let's review.

1. Scriptures don't refer to themselves with this title.

I showed you otherwise. But you contradict yourself. You cannot say the Word is insired and not the word of God. You cannot say the Word is God breathed and say they are not the Word.

But I can say with all reason and logic that both are the Word. One is to be worshiped the other is to be revered, understood, and obeyed. They both reveal who God is. They both have the same value and the same purpose.

2. Jesus doesn't refer to scriptures with this title.

Jesus did not refer to Himself with this title. But:

Mar 7:13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do."

3. I don't refer to scriptures with this title.

That is your personal mistake

 

[Skandelon]

You never showed how I misrepresented you by showing that Christ and scriptures are not on the same level.

I showed you otherwise.

Really? Where does the scripture call itself "The Word of God?"

You cannot say the Word is insired and not the word of God.

You can if you understand the distinction between the person call "the Word," and the scripture inspired by Him in order to testify and point us into relationship.

Scriptures were written so that we might believe in Christ.

You cannot say the Word is God breathed and say they are not the Word.

Again, it's simply a distinction between God and his breath. The creator and his creation. The WORD and his words. I'm not belittling anything. Just putting them in their proper perspective.

But I can say with all reason and logic that both are the Word. One is to be worshiped the other is to be revered, understood, and obeyed. They both reveal who God is. They both have the same value and the same purpose.

The same value???? I know of places on earth that don't have a single page of scripture yet Christ is worshiped and valued above all things. Yes, they'd love to have scriptures so they can read and learn more, but the value is IN CHRIST even when the scriptures are not anywhere to be found.

 

[mandym]

You never showed how I misrepresented you by showing that Christ and scriptures are not on the same level.

Now you are being disengenuous. You said:

Would you rather read the book or meet the author? The book is meant to introduce you to its author, not to be the end in and of itself. We don't worship the scriptures...at least we shouldn't. We do worship Christ and yet you have just put them on the same level.

No one said anything about worshiping scripture. That misrepresent me and is a straw man.

 

[Skandelon]

No one said anything about worshiping scripture. That misrepresent me and is a straw man.

Now I understand what you were saying. Please allow me to explain.

I wasn't meaning to indicate you did worship scripture (as I explained in more detail to P4T above). I was indicating that you don't worship scripture (no one should), thus proving that Christ is of greater value because you DO worship Him. You claim they (Jesus and Scripture) are on the same level and have the same value which is proven to be untrue by the very fact that you worship one and not the other.

Understand my point now?

 

[mandym]

Now I understand what you were saying. Please allow me to explain.

I wasn't meaning to indicate you did worship scripture (as I explained in more detail to P4T above). I was indicating that you don't worship scripture (no one should), thus proving that Christ is of greater value because you DO worship Him. You claim they (Jesus and Scripture) are on the same level and have the same value which is proven to be untrue by the very fact that you worship one and not the other.

Understand my point now?

yes and I am saying that while we do not worship scripture its value is equal to Christ because they both reveal God and the Word comes from God and is the only truth.. Even though we respond to them differently. They are distinct with equal value.

 

[Skandelon]

yes and I am saying that while we do not worship scripture its value is equal to Christ because they both reveal God and the Word comes from God and is the only truth.. Even though we respond to them differently. They are distinct with equal value.

I understand, but I really doubt the author's of the scripture would ever want us to value the scriptures as much as we do the Lord of the scriptures.

But, I understand you want to place a high value on scripture and that I can respect. We may just have to agree to disagree as to how high that value is in comparison to Christ.

 

[John3v36]

1 Corinthians 7:12
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.


What are we to do with verses like this one?

Why did He make that distinction?

What you do with it is you take it in contact of the whole of the Bible. Later on in the same book Paul lets you know it does not matter if He is quoiting something from Jesus or if it from Him. If anyone was genuinely a prophet or had the true spiritual gift, he or she would submit to the principles God had revealed through the apostle.
1 Cor 14”37 “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

 

[psalms109:31]

I respect Paul and all he teaches and learned so much for him. I believe he said i not the Lord for the reason to not continue adding regulation on to the word of God.

It boiled down to love God and others as yourself. If a person is in a relationship in domestic violence of things of that nature they have the right to leave their partner in hopes for them to change and don't have to wait for them to leave to make things right to do things according to Paul not the Lord. We should not have to live in a home full of anger or violence. That leaving them in hopes they will get help maybe the only alternative. What Paul said is not written in stone that we should live in a bad situation.

 

[Aaron]

So, you put the scriptures on the same level with their author?


Would you rather read the book or meet the author? The book is meant to introduce you to its author, not to be the end in and of itself. We don't worship the scriptures...at least we shouldn't. We do worship Christ and yet you have just put them on the same level.

I think the very scriptures you are attempting to defend don't support your view.

The Scriptures and Christ are equal in authority. To disobey the Scripture is to disobey Christ. To love the Scripture is to love Christ, and vice versa. As the Psalmist said, Thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

What you're trying to do is create false dichotomy where you can elevate your notions of Christ above what is revealed in the Scriptures. The thread was deleted where you unequivocally stated that as a whole the Scriptures are not the word of God, and that only those as educated as yourself will know which portions are authoritative and those which are not.

I'm calling you on it, and the moderator who defends you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Did I deny that the scriptures taught the word of God, just as John did? But we don't put John on the same level of Christ do we?

Who said you denied that the Scriptures taught the word of God? Show me where I saod this? Where in the world did this come from? Oh, you need an escape route from the subject at hand and want to move toward ambiguity and away from you being proven in error in saying the Word of God isn't called such? Yes, that is what is at hand here.

Stay on topic skan, even though you're proven incorrect, OK?

Here you go, attempting to twist and change meanings, intent, subject, and then accusatory nonsense as if I place John the Apostle on the same level as Christ, in yor subtle attempt to place it in question as if that has happened.

None of this took place in my response. No need for you to draw the thread into that direction. There was nothing in what I said that implied, conveyed, suggested that John is on the same level, and absolutely no need for you to bring it up whatsoever, and add a strawman and make a subtle false accusation. But this is typical you and what you do consistently.

Again, stay on topic: The apostle called Scriptures the Word of God. You said the Scriptures never do this. You're wrong yet again.

My response is that John, Peter, Paul, others all preached the Scriptures and it was called the Word of God. You said the Scriptures are never called that, John shows you are incorrect.

Stay on topic, no one said you deny the Scriptures teach the Word of God, no one is saying John is on the same level of Christ. These two nonsensical things were thrown in all by yourself and have nothing to do with what I said.

By the way, the Scriptures don't teach the Word of God, they are the Word of God. It's starting to appear that you only think they contain the word of God. This is erroneous and false.

 

[Aaron]

From the BaptistBoard statement of faith:

[SIZE=-1]I. The Scriptures[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

[/SIZE]
Is one who denies this qualified to act as a moderator here?

 

[psalms109:31]

It is a scary thought to see ourselves like the pharisees that we magnify the word of God higher than God and not God doing it in His loving kindness and faithfulness truth. I want to show this verse again.

Psalm 138:
2 I will bow down toward Your holy temple
And give thanks to Your name for Your lovingkindness and Your truth[Or faithfulness];
For You have magnified Your word[Or promise] according to [Or together with] all Your name.

 

[freeatlast]

It is a scary thought to see ourselves like the pharisees that we magnify the word of God higher than God and not God doing it in His loving kindness and faithfulness truth. I want to show this verse again.

Psalm 138:
2 I will bow down toward Your holy temple
And give thanks to Your name for Your lovingkindness and Your truth[Or faithfulness];
For You have magnified Your word[Or promise] according to [Or together with] all Your name.

You are a little confused if I am understanding you correctly. God's word is to be lifted up just as high as He is. There is no difference.

 

[psalms109:31]

You are a little confused if I am understanding you correctly. God's word is to be lifted up just as high as He is. There is no difference.

God has magnified His word according to His name not man. He magnifies it in His loving kindness and truth. Men try to magnify it in their way, it doesn't turn out that good.

I am trying to understand Scan viewpoint and i was hoping for feedback from him with what was said.

 

[psalms109:31]

Acts 19:
Miracles at Ephesus
11 God was performing extraordinary [Or works of power]miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out. 13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, “I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?” 16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified. 18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices. 19 And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it [Probably fifty thousand Greek drachmas; a drachma approximated a day’s wage]fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So [Or according to the power of the Lord the word was growing]the word of the Lord was growing mightily and prevailing.

 

[Skandelon]

The Scriptures and Christ are equal in authority.

I think God would out rank the scriptures which is why we see Christ saying things like "you've heard it say...but I say to you." He was an authority in bringing correct understanding of the scriptures. But, again, I'm not in anyway attempting to lesson the authority of scripture. I'm just not willing to put it at the same value or authority of God Himself considering the variants and uncertainties we have regarding some of the different manuscripts and translations. If God himself shows up and says to you something like, "That passage in Mark about handling snakes wasn't in the earlier manuscripts because it was added later, so don't do that," ..or whatever then I'm sure you would submit to Him above what you may or may not think that text meant to convey. Additionally, there obviously many different interpretations and belief based on scripture. Who is the authority over its one true meaning? God is, obviously, which in itself proves He is more "authoritative."

But again, just to say God out ranks something is not lessoning its authority. It just placing the scriptures under God and his SOVEREIGNTY, rather than somehow equal to it. The scripture is most certainly all those things recorded in the BMF, as I already confirmed.

To disobey the Scripture is to disobey Christ.

Of course, generally speaking I agree with this. But, to obey some of the OT scripture would actually be disobedience according to Paul who told those who were practicing circumcision to emasculate themselves. I just might word it a bit differently: Obeying scripture, as interpreted by Christ himself, is to obey Christ. And scripture, as interpreted by Christ, is completely true and authoritative. How is that?

To love the Scripture is to love Christ, and vice versa. As the Psalmist said, Thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Where is this Aaron when talking about the power of the word?

What you're trying to do is create false dichotomy where you can elevate your notions of Christ above what is revealed in the Scriptures. The thread was deleted where you unequivocally stated that as a whole the Scriptures are not the word of God, and that only those as educated as yourself will know which portions are authoritative and those which are not.

In that thread I rebuked you thoroughly for putting heretical words in my mouth. I never said this and you know it.

I said the title "the Word of God" is given to Christ and scripture itself never claims it. I affirmed that the scriptures are God-breathed, authoritative and authored by inspiration of God. I pointed out some very basic principles of hermeneutics that I know you are aware of and would probably agree with if not so consumed with trying to one up me and paint me as an evil heretic.

 

[Skandelon]

Who said you denied that the Scriptures taught the word of God? Show me where I saod this?

You wrote: "Sounds good until one reads the Scriptures Skan. John the Apostle was imprisoned for preaching "The Word of God" (Revelation 1:9) which was the Scriptures. That means that Paul, Peter, all the Apostles were preaching the Word of God, or the Scriptures, so no, it doesn't undermine our Lord in doing so by calling it what it is."


That implies that you don't think I believe that when the apostles taught the scriptures they were teaching the word of God, but I've never denied that truth. I simply pointed to the FACT that scripture doesn't give itself that title, nor does Jesus. However, Jesus is called the Word. The apostles were preaching Jesus. They were preaching scripture. They were preaching the words God inspired them to preach. We all affirm that. I'm ONLY speaking of the title we give to these and their distinction.

Here you go, attempting to twist and change meanings, intent, subject, and then accusatory nonsense as if I place John the Apostle on the same level as Christ, in yor subtle attempt to place it in question as if that has happened.

Please stop being so defensive that you refuse to understand the argument before you reply. Scripture is one means God's words were proclaimed. John, the inspired apostle, was another means God's words were proclaimed. I was simply showing that we don't worship John just because he spoke the words of God and we don't worship scripture just because it records the words of God. We do, however, worship the Word, Jesus Christ. That is the ONLY distinction I was trying to draw.

 

[Skandelon]

From the BaptistBoard statement of faith:

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Is one who denies this qualified to act as a moderator here?

No. I don't even think they should be a posting member in the Baptist section if they deny this. Why, who denied it?