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+1 for Calvinism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jeep Dragon, Sep 6, 2006.

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  1. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Looks like psalm109 is successfully competing for the position of Resident Heretick since Me4Him has vacated.
     
    #101 J.D., Oct 6, 2006
  2. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Jesus for salvation

    Just rest in the arms of Jesus not in the arms of men

    I'm preaching Jesus for salvation, not a believe and forget who saved you savation.

    Those who endure to the end will be saved.

    Jesus alone is my salvation.

    I will not be arrogant and say I do not even have to believe Jesus until the end to be saved
     
    #102 psalms109:31, Oct 6, 2006
  3. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Scripture

    I do praise God for the scripture that they have posted and I agree with everyone of them.

    If you have walked away, Jesus is waiting for your return.

    Now is the day for salvation .

    Jesus hasn't left you, you left Him. He didn't disown you because He didn't love you He disowned you because you disowned Him.

    We all need the word they have given to us through the words of scripture.

    We also need to hear the whole truth, not what they have decided to feed us.

    If we disown Jesus He will disown us, we must endure to the end to be saved.

    Those are not my own words, but the words of Jesus

    Jesus and His words testify for me. That if we do not remain in Jesus we are good for nothing but the fire.
     
    #103 psalms109:31, Oct 6, 2006
  4. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    You don't agree with them either! You have displayed that you know nothing about the word salvation. This is the one clear thing on this thread for sure!
     
    #104 jne1611, Oct 6, 2006
  5. Jeep Dragon

    Jeep Dragon Member
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    Psalm, you keep using the term disown for Matthew 10:33. in the KJV 1769, it uses the word "deny." I do not claim to be KJVO as I prefer to look at the concordance for any questioned words. However, I would like you to notice something.
    The word "deny" in Matthew 10:33 means to contradict, disavow, reject, abnegate, deny, or refuse.
    The word "deny" in Matthew 26:34 means to deny utterly, to disown, obstain.

    The denying in Peter's example seems far stronger. I ask you, was Peter unsaved. remember, he was chosen by Jesus to be his disciple.

    Remember, we must always look at passages in their context. Preachers like to make "good preaching" by picking certain passages and reading into them ignoring who was spoken to, who spoke it, and/or why it was spoken.

    Jesus was speaking to His disciples (who were believers) about other people. Think logically... If the disciples see someone free-willingly denying Christ in public. it is obvious that that person is not saved. Ofcourse, one cannot judge another's salvation, because only God knows the heart.

    As the case with Peter denying Jesus, remember that all have sinned. The Bible makes no distinction as to which sins will "harm your salvation" and which will "not harm your salvation." There are so many verses that say to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. People find few verses that do not even mention the term salvation and try to apply it to such.
     
    #105 Jeep Dragon, Oct 8, 2006
  6. Jeep Dragon

    Jeep Dragon Member
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    Remember people, we have the old and new nature dwelling in us. Peter denied Jesus in fear of Rome. He saw Jesus' fate and the horrors of being delivered into Roman hands for crucifixion. He did not truely understand who Jesus was at the time. He acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. He was not sure that Jesus was actually God or that He was supposed to die. When he saw Jesus meeting defeat against what he was taught about the Messiah, he feared for his life. Hid flesh told him that if he does not acknowledge that he knows Jesus he would be safe from harm.

    Realize was Peter was going through. He saw Jesus do things that only God could do. He actually witnessed a "human being" live a sinless life. He faces the guilt of seeing Jesus face crusifixion boldly without trying to defend Himself while Peter lies to save his sorry hide. When Peter whined about his guilt of denial, did he decide to make it right and appologize to the questioners? No, he continued in his whining guilt in fear of crucifixion.

    We know that Peter was changed after he saw Jesus and was confronted with his mission and his fate, but also his reward. His faith was finally completed when he understood who Jesus was and His purpose.

    Was Peter unsaved or did he lose his salvation during his period of denial? I ask you this question: How many of us realize that we are wrong and we are blatently refusing to give up a sin that is spelled out 100% clearly in the Bible as "thou shalt not" and "God hates this"? We may whine about our guilt in it, but we still "can't" give it up.

    Even for something as harsh as denying Jesus, we must realize that as long as we live in this flesh, we are not perfect. Did Peter stop believing in Jesus when he denied Him? No, he lied to save his hide. He realized that pain hurts. We must realize that Peter was punished for his denial but could have been rewarded for not denying Jesus.
    I know some may disagree concerning this incident seeing how Jesus did predict that Peter would deny Him and seeing how the Word was established in Heaven before the foundations of the world, one may believe that Peter had no choice in the matter. That is off the current seeming subject.:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #106 Jeep Dragon, Oct 8, 2006
  7. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Denial

    If we live a life of denial of Jesus even if we believed once, we will be denied by Jesus.

    You think grace is irresistible but it isn't we can walk away from Jesus in which the grace of God comes from just like the young rich ruler did, our hope will always be in Jesus, not in election. Because we can be cut out just like the natural branches for not continuing in God kindness through Jesus Christ.

    We are not to be arrogant but afraid if God did not spare the natural branches He will not spare us either.
     
    #107 psalms109:31, Oct 9, 2006
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    falling down

    We are going to fall and make mistakes it is in learning process, it is not getting up and finishing the race set out fot you that matters.

    Those who endure until the end will be saved.
     
    #108 psalms109:31, Oct 9, 2006
  9. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Ah! So here we finally have it! You believe that works play a part in your salvation don't you?
     
    #109 jne1611, Oct 9, 2006
  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Works

    To endure to the end is to believe that the work of Jesus has saved.

    You do not understand what it means to believe.


    A part of belief is that it is the work of Jesus that saved us.

    Argue with Jesus for He is that one who has told you that those who endure to the end will be saved.

    You only want to believe in scripture that confirms your man-made doctrine, the scripture that doesn't just throw it out.

    We cannot not add or take away from the word of God.

    You must endure to the end to be saved.

    You may not understand it but it doesn't contridict the scripture, it just adds to the truth you already knowefrom scripture.

    Scripture is my doctrine.

    Men desire to put God is a box, but you cannot
     
    #110 psalms109:31, Oct 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2006
  11. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    I have no problem with believing that God's people will endure to the end in faith of Jesus Christ. But the Scripture says we are kept by the power of God through faith! So if you could break the power that ministers faith to you, then you have overpowered God Himself! Sure the righteous fall prey to all kinds of unbelief, but God continually picks him back up, for his will is that CHRIST will lose nothing! And if any of God's people ever are lost, God lost them! Can you see that?
    So let me get this straight. John says they went out from us because they were not of us. Do you believe these were saved? If not why?
     
    #111 jne1611, Oct 9, 2006
  12. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God has made the rules

    God by His own word says believers will be saved and non-believers will be condemned.

    I have not set those rules God has.
    They were not saved. How can we go back to the life we once lived, knowing that Jesus suffered for it.
     
    #112 psalms109:31, Oct 9, 2006
  13. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Jesus

    Icludeed with what was said, that we can go back to Jesus but if they continue to live thier life away from Jesus they will not be saved, because we must remain in Jesus or be good for nothing but the fire.
     
    #113 psalms109:31, Oct 9, 2006
  14. Jeep Dragon

    Jeep Dragon Member
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    Psalm, how do you interpret
    (Eph 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    (Eph 2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    How do you explain the Philippian Jailor asking Paul "What must I do to be saved?"? If there was more to it than the grace of God it would not be a gift. If we had to earn it or try to remain righteous in any way with our sin nature it would not be a gift.

    People should not take illustrations that do not even mention the term salvation and assume it means such. Just because the vine and branches mentions casting branches into fire does not mean it symbolizes a person going to hell.

    If Jesus really cared about our souls, He would plainly tell us that we can lose our salvation. There are so many verses that claim that all one needs to do is believe in Jesus to be saved. What does that mean if one loses his salvation. Does he have to "re-believe" to be "resaved"? The Bible plainly tells us how to get saved. There are many generic pictures in the Bible that tell us that righteousness is rewarded and wickedness is punished. However, one must not try to dispensationally force salvation into any picture just because it has the word "fire" in it.
     
    #114 Jeep Dragon, Oct 9, 2006
  15. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Note: Saved is in the past tense.

    This is a tense denotes something that has ALREADY been done.
    It is a COMPLETED fact!!

    Believe and thou shalt BE SAVED!!

    With reference to 'save' in the present or future tense (NT) is always referencing the work Christ will do FOR those who beleive.

    He (Jesus) will 'save' the people from their sins.
    He (Jesus) came to seek and to 'save' that which was lost.
    (Jesus) I came not to judge the world, but to 'save' the world
    (Jesus) came into the world to 'save' sinners.
     
    #115 Allan, Oct 10, 2006
  16. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Faith

    It is by grace, through what faith which is trust in Jesus and His word our faith is given to us by God through His word. We can reject the faith God is given to us through His word.

    If we reject Jesus we reject God's grace.
     
    #116 psalms109:31, Oct 10, 2006
  17. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    True, for the unregenerate (unsaved)

    However, the beleiver is SAVED - a completed fact since the verb is past tense as I stated in previous posting.

    IF you would like I can post the myriad of verses that state as beleivers in the present our salvation is a completed fact - past tense.
     
    #117 Allan, Oct 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2006
  18. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Bro Allan, if you could somehow get it to people that the whole of our salvation is Christ, and just get them to look at him & what he is, there would be no doubting the future of those who know him! Praise God! I could shout!
    [​IMG]





     
    #118 jne1611, Oct 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2006
  19. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Believer

    A believer is saved in past ,present, and future tense and a non-believer is condemned in past, present, and future tense.

    Thank you for your half of the truth, now you have the whole truth.

    It doesn't matter in what tense, all you need to know is a believer is saved and a non-believers is condemned
     
    #119 psalms109:31, Oct 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2006
  20. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Yes and those who do not have a full salvation in Christ Past, Present, & Future, Have no salvation at all. And if your waiting till the end of the road to find if your saved. Well, its to late then!
     
    #120 jne1611, Oct 11, 2006
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