1 John 5:10-11.

[37818]

Did you have a testimony of conversion you would like to share?

Yes.

Does it agree with the following?

from http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf

A number of issues. The PDF has links which were not accessible. And by the titles of some of the subject matter would not likely be in agreement with my understanding of the Biblical monergistic doctrine of salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

And where exactly is this in Scripture? To continue my analogy, this is like having the cake in your stomach before you have purchased it, let alone eaten it.
John 17:20-21. "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one, just as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.' The believing is future, the union with Christ is future, but the election is past. Verse 24. Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, may be with Me where I am, to see My glory.....'

Try to understand this: the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, 'to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth' (2 Thessalonians 2:13). they are not saved until they are born anew and trust in Christ. That they will be saved is certain, but they are not saved until they believe.

Martin I really only have one question for you and for all the calvinists on BB. Why do you try so hard to destroy the character of God?

Calvinists say God is sovereign then deny that He can be sovereign
The bible says He desires all to come to repentance and be saved and you say no not true He only wants some to be saved
The bible says He died as a ransom for all and you say not true
Calvinists say that God determined all that happens and then say man is responsible for their sins

Even your own words, when you take them to the logical conclusion, make God disingenuous. You read into the bible what you want to find. Ephesians 1:4 does not support your "elect before the foundation of the world" view. Read that verse in context Ephesians 1:1-14 and try to do it without the calvinst bias.

I consider myself fortunate in that I learned to trust scripture long before I even heard of Calvinims or Arminianism. Paul warned us that we should not follow man but rather God. From what I have seen on BB and other boards calvinsts just think the Holy Spirit got it wrong.

 

[37818]

The PDF has links which were not accessible.

FYI, that problem was corrected. The difference between reading the PDF from a browser and a PDF reader on my Android device.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin I really only have one question for you and for all the calvinists on BB. Why do you try so hard to destroy the character of God? {/QUOTE]
I do not. You are the one who says that God does not love anyone enough to save them.

Calvinists say God is sovereign then deny that He can be sovereign
The bible says He desires all to come to repentance and be saved and you say no not true He only wants some to be saved
The bible says He died as a ransom for all and you say not true
Calvinists say that God determined all that happens and then say man is responsible for their sins

If God is soverereign and desires every single person to come to salvation, then every single person will e saved will be saved. Is that what you believe? If not, why not?
If Christ died as a ransom for every single person, then every single person is ransomed. Is that what you believe? If not, why not?

Even your own words, when you take them to the logical conclusion, make God disingenuous. You read into the bible what you want to find. Ephesians 1:4 does not support your "elect before the foundation of the world" view. Read that verse in context Ephesians 1:1-14 and try to do it without the calvinst bias. {/QUOTE]
Ephesians 1:4-5. 'Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will.'
What is it that you want to say about these verses? What is the context of verses 1-14 that you are so eager to share but haven't actually done so? First of all, who is 'us'? 'Us' is Paul and 'the saints who are in Ephesus and are faithful in Christ Jesus.' By extention it might mean all faithful Christians (c.f. 1 Corinthians 1:2b), but under no circumstances can it mean all the people in the world. Those faithful Christians were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. That does not mean that they were in Christ before the foundation of the world; it means that they were chosen to be in Christ, so that His death would be for them so that they might be holy and blameless before God. These same people were also predestined to bbe adopted as sons by God Himself, making them His heirs and co-heirs with Christ.
Now if you feel that the context of the next 12 verses contradicts any of that, it is for you to show how it does,
[QUOTE}
I consider myself fortunate in that I learned to trust scripture long before I even heard of Calvinims or Arminianism. Paul warned us that we should not follow man but rather God. From what I have seen on BB and other boards calvinsts just think the Holy Spirit got it wrong.

And all this old blarny that you trot out in every post doesn't impress me either. I have shown on another thread how I came to faith. It was in a non-Calvinist church and at the time of my salvation I had no idea of either Calvinism or Arminianism. It was through reading the Bible, and especially Ephesians 1:1-14, that I came to understand the sovereignty of God in salvation and the definite redemption of Christ, though even at that point I didn't know what it was called.

 

[Silverhair]

Martin do you not remember this verse John 3:16? God loves His creation and wants all to come to salvation 1 Timothy 2:3-4. You have confused desires with causes. You are reading your calvinism into the text again.

Martin it seems you do not trust what the bible says. Do you not believe that Christ died for the ungodly Romans 5:6, for sinners Romans 5:8, for enemies of God Romans 5:10? You said that Christ could not have given Himself as a ransom for all but what does the bible say 1 Timothy 2:5-6.

Why were not all those saved that Christ died for, well that would be because some did not believe so as to be saved. John 3:18. Just like the bible tells us in Ephesians 1:13 those that hear and believe the gospel will be saved as it is the power of God for salvation Romans 1:16.

You seem to have a real problem trusting what the bible says and would rather hold to your calvinism.

 

[AustinC]

Plucking verses out of context does not impress or convince any discerning Christian.

 

[Silverhair]

Plucking verses out of context does not impress or convince any discerning Christian.

Show the error in those verses Austin. You never deal with the scripture just your usual huff and puff. I really do hope you are not including yourself in that "discerning Christian" group as any one in that group would see that those verses support what was said.

The mere fact you can not see that, shows you really do not understand or trust the bible. For you it seems that if the bible does not support your calvinist view then the Holy Spirit must have gotten it wrong.

Austin you can dismiss me all day long and I do not care but when you dismiss the scriptures then you have gone to far. Clean up your act and start behaving like the Christian that you claim to be.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin do you not remember this verse John 3:16? God loves His creation and wants all to come to salvation 1 Timothy 2:3-4. You have confused desires with causes. You are reading your calvinism into the text again.

Do you not understand John 3:16? tt is a verse that teaches particular redemption.

Martin it seems you do not trust what the bible says. Do you not believe that Christ died for the ungodly Romans 5:6, for sinners Romans 5:8, for enemies of God Romans 5:10? You said that Christ could not have given Himself as a ransom for all but what does the bible say 1 Timothy 2:5-6.

It is very hard to avoid being rude to you because you keep on ploughing the same fruitless furrow tim after time, but I wll make an effort. Of course Christ died for the ungoly, for sinners, for those who were His enemies. Why do you suppose that these verses make the Calvinist do anything other than to praise God for His mercy? But if He gave Himself as a ransom for every single person, then every single peerson is ransomed and John 3:16 is contradicted.

Why were not all those saved that Christ died for, well that would be because some did not believe so as to be saved.

Can you not understand that if Christ redeemed every single person whoever lived, then they are all redeemed? And if Christ is the propitiation for every single person who ever lived, then God is propitiated towards them all. If this is what you believe, then you should havee the courage to say so.

John 3:18. Just like the bible tells us in Ephesians 1:13 those that hear and believe the gospel will be saved as it is the power of God for salvation Romans 1:16.

Exactly so. Why do you think these verses advance your case? They do the opposite. It is our Lord's sheep who hear His voice and follow Him, and yes, they may well have been ungodly, sinners and enemies, just like Saul of Tarsus (1 Timothy 1:15) and just like me. Those who do not hear and follow Him are not His sheep and He did not lay down His life for them. Far from laying down His life for every single person and then seeing them lost despite of it, He will not lose even one of those whom the Father has given Him.

You seem to have a real problem trusting what the bible says and would rather hold to your calvinism.

You seem to have a real problem trusting what the Bible says and would rather hold to your faux arminianism.

Since it appears that you have nothing new to say about this matter, why don't you call it a day andd we can put an end to this fruitles tit for tat?

 

[Silverhair]

Do you not understand John 3:16? tt is a verse that teaches particular redemption.

It is very hard to avoid being rude to you because you keep on ploughing the same fruitless furrow tim after time, but I wll make an effort. Of course Christ died for the ungoly, for sinners, for those who were His enemies. Why do you suppose that these verses make the Calvinist do anything other than to praise God for His mercy? But if He gave Himself as a ransom for every single person, then every single peerson is ransomed and John 3:16 is contradicted.

Can you not understand that if Christ redeemed every single person whoever lived, then they are all redeemed? And if Christ is the propitiation for every single person who ever lived, then God is propitiated towards them all. If this is what you believe, then you should havee the courage to say so.

Exactly so. Why do you think these verses advance your case? They do the opposite. It is our Lord's sheep who hear His voice and follow Him, and yes, they may well have been ungodly, sinners and enemies, just like Saul of Tarsus (1 Timothy 1:15) and just like me. Those who do not hear and follow Him are not His sheep and He did not lay down His life for them. Far from laying down His life for every single person and then seeing them lost despite of it, He will not lose even one of those whom the Father has given Him.

You seem to have a real problem trusting what the Bible says and would rather hold to your faux arminianism.

Since it appears that you have nothing new to say about this matter, why don't you call it a day andd we can put an end to this fruitles tit for tat?

Martin you are so locked into your false theology that you can not even understand basic scripture. That is really sad for someone that says they preach. you are not trusting the bible but yourself.

You read into the text what you want to find. and deny clear scripture.

Do you not understand what "whoever" means? It is only your closed mind that could see whoever to mean only the select few. Read your words you post. You are telling the Holy Spirit {God} that He got it wrong. The arrogance of the average calvinist is amazing.

All through this and other posts you deny what the text says and twist scripture in the attempt to support your calvinism. I would surmise that there are a few calvinists on BB that would prefer that I not respond to their posts as I keep pointing out the errors and contradictions.

I will continue to contend for the truth of scripture as it is not for the hardened calvinist that I respond but rather for those that may be misled by that errant theology.

So Martin it is not you personally that I disagree with but rather the philosophy that you support.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

@Silverhair,
Your problem is that you neither understand Calvinism (A fact that you reveal with every post), nor Scripture itself.
'Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.' 'Whoever believes in Him shall not perish.' These and other similar texts are precious truths to Calvinists. I have told you this time without number; why can't you accept it?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

On that note, this thread is closed,