1 Timothy 2:11-12

[Shortandy]

I love how heated you guys get over this. :love2:

I am not trying to get anyone up in arms. This is just a text that as a young pastor I have some trouble with. So lets discuss the text and try to stay away from the emotion....if we can:laugh:

Now I disagree that this text about a woman and her man. Not real sure how anyone could interpret it that way. The context of all of the previous verses in chapter 2 seem to carry a universal tone... "all peoples" in verse 1 and verse 4....Verse 8 seems to indicate multiple men. Based on this I believe the context of the scripture in question is all men not just the woman's husband.

Some try to use culture to dismiss the teaching of Paul here. The problem with that is Paul's defense of the statement is not culture but creation. He takes it all the way back to the garden.

Just a few thoughts. I am not going to pretend that I have it all figured out but I want to.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I marvel that someone would admit that the church he attends is not consistent with the early church and not only not be bothered by this but use it as an excuse to put women into a teaching role in the church.

Does your church meet from house to house? Does it send men to the local Jewish temple to teach there? If not, your church is also inconsistant with how the early church did things. Oh and it is SHE. I made it clear early on in this thread that I am a woman.

 

[Shortandy]

Does your church meet from house to house? Does it send men to the local Jewish temple to teach there? If not, your church is also inconsistant with how the early church did things. Oh and it is SHE. I made it clear early on in this thread that I am a woman.

But Paul doesn't appeal to culture and how we do church...he appeals to creation order. So it doesn't matter if our churches meet in homes or not. What we are dealing with is this principle of women in authority.

 

[RAdam]

Does your church meet from house to house? Does it send men to the local Jewish temple to teach there? If not, your church is also inconsistant with how the early church did things. Oh and it is SHE. I made it clear early on in this thread that I am a woman.

The discussion was consistency in manner of worship, not in place of worship. The place doesn't matter, the manner most definantly does. I can't remember one instruction for where to meet, I see many for how to meet and what to do once the church meets. And I still say that admitting that you aren't consistent with the early church in manner of worship and not being bothered by it makes me marvel.

I'll basically ignore the Jewish temple portion since God was sending them the gospel for a time that ended with Him judging them in 70 AD.

Sorry for the gender mix up.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Manner of worship? Women were commanded to teach their children and the younger children. That is what SS is for. SS isn't worship necessarily. In the beginning it wasn't even done at the same time as the regular worship service. Instead the children came back in the afternoon for a while. SS is a modern device for teaching. I don't consider it worship any more than I consider gathering my children and whoever else happens to be around for an afternoon Bible reading. Its worship in that Christ says "where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there I will be" but its not corporate worship.

 

[RAdam]

I'm glad you admitted that SS is a modern invention that is inconsistent with the early church. Now I ask you this question - why the need for this invention? Was the early church's method of teaching the children, ie parents instructing at home and attending regular preaching service, inadequate? If so then why didn't the apostles add it? Paul said we are to keep the ordinances as they were delivered to us whether by word or epistle.

 

[menageriekeeper]

If so then why didn't the apostles add it? Paul said we are to keep the ordinances as they were delivered to us whether by word or epistle.

Hmmm, I don't remember Paul or anyone giving us specific instructions on where or how to teach or to worship for that matter. We have instructions as to who can lead the gathering in its entirety, but nothing as to how, when or even where worship should occur.

I'm guessig the apostles didn't add SS because they didn't live in the 1900's and didn't see the need for it. But, just because they didn't, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

But we are off topic. The OP listed a specific scripture that suggests that women shouldn't be in authority over a man. Fine. But what does that have to do with a woman teaching SS to children or leading a womens only Bible study? The mere fact that these things are done IN the church building? What sense does that make?

 

[RAdam]

If only those apostles had lived in the 19th century. I ask again, was what they established inadequate?

 

[Shortandy]

Hmmm, I don't remember Paul or anyone giving us specific instructions on where or how to teach or to worship for that matter. We have instructions as to who can lead the gathering in its entirety, but nothing as to how, when or even where worship should occur.

I'm guessig the apostles didn't add SS because they didn't live in the 1900's and didn't see the need for it. But, just because they didn't, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

But we are off topic. The OP listed a specific scripture that suggests that women shouldn't be in authority over a man. Fine. But what does that have to do with a woman teaching SS to children or leading a womens only Bible study? The mere fact that these things are done IN the church building? What sense does that make?

I think women can teach other women and children....see Titus 2. But Paul seems to clearly teach that a woman is not to teach men in church.

 

[menageriekeeper]

But Paul seems to clearly teach that a woman is not to teach men in church.

And I agree.

However, Radam seems to be saying that a woman shouldn't even be teaching other women or children inside the church building as part of the regular Sunday activities.

Of course, he also seems to be saying that he thinks SS and church buildings to be anti Biblical, so I'm waiting to see how he defends that position from scripture.

 

[THEOLDMAN]

Saint Paul said that he was the "Chief of ALL sinners" . He also stated that this thing (Christianity) has no jew or gentile...male or female.


Just Sayin'

 

[Allan]

Saint Paul said that he was the "Chief of ALL sinners" . He also stated that this thing (Christianity) has no jew or gentile...male or female.


Just Sayin'

WRONG!!

Re-read it again, and you will find the reference is that salvation is to all - Jew and Gentile, male and female.

If christianity did not have gender distinction within it you would not have Saint Paul stating such things like - the head of the wife is her husband... and other things like that.