10 of my favorite warning Scriptures to Christians vs. OSAS

[evangelist-7]

Steaver, I made some clarifications whilst thou was posting ... sorry.
.

 

[steaver]

Steaver, I made some clarifications whilst thou was posting ... sorry.
.

Ok, whats a BAC

 

[The Biblicist]

The precious blood that Christ shed on Calvary's Cross was more than sufficient to atone for
the sins of the whole world, i.e. whoever was elected before the foundation of the world.

These special "elect" ones proved through their lives to be faithful disciples of Jesus ...
... all of the way through to the end of their lives.
They were born again with the precious Holy Spirit inside of them.
This is God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation, which commences at this point.
God's grace continues as long as the BACs continue in the faith, i.e. obedience, etc.
The promises and blessings are only for these elect BACs, not for disobedient BACs.
The elect took Jesus' commands seriously, as well as His warnings.
They also took the teachings and warnings of the epistle writers seriously.
They co-operated with the Holy Spirit in their sanctification process,
which is to say they listened to His voice, was led by Him, and obeyed Him.
They did not leave the faith and go back to their "old man" lives of sin.
They repented of their sins to the best of their ability, i.e. they had no habitual (unrepented of) sins.

BACs who failed to live as outlined above ...
possibly had a chance on their death beds to repent and return to be in God's grace.
In which case, they were elect after all.
.

In other words, God could be wrong! The elect might not end up being the elect! What he forknew was not certain but ultimately could be overthrown.

I know you are trying to present a consistent view but there are some serious problems with your presentation. In essence you are claiming Christ did only HIS PART of salvation sufficiently but what he did was not sufficient to save anyone without them doing THEIR PART of salvation. Hence, co-partners in the FINISHED work of salvation. Hence, he is not the author and finisher of our faith but only the author and we (Jesus and me) are the finishers. It is like he provides us the football but we must run for the touchdown but he will root for us as the coach on the sidelines.

 

[evangelist-7]

Ok, whats a BAC

Yes, this is my own abbrev. for Born Again Christian.

I wish to differentiate between the born-agains and the intellectual professors.
You know, the ones who went to cemetary, er seminary ... just kidding.
.

 

[steaver]

The precious blood that Christ shed on Calvary's Cross was more than sufficient to atone for
the sins of the whole world, i.e. whoever was elected before the foundation of the world.

These special "elect" ones proved through their lives to be faithful disciples of Jesus ...
... all of the way through to the end of their lives.
They were born again with the precious Holy Spirit inside of them.
This is God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation, which commences at this point.
God's grace continues as long as the BACs continue in the faith, i.e. obedience, etc.
The promises and blessings are only for these elect BACs, not for disobedient BACs.
The elect took Jesus' commands seriously, as well as His warnings.
They also took the teachings and warnings of the epistle writers seriously.
They co-operated with the Holy Spirit in their sanctification process,
which is to say they listened to His voice, was led by Him, and obeyed Him.
They did not leave the faith and go back to their "old man" lives of sin.
They repented of their sins to the best of their ability, i.e. they had no habitual (unrepented of) sins.

BACs who failed to live as outlined above ...
possibly had a chance on their death beds to repent and return to be in God's grace.
In which case, they were elect after all.
.

You are still concluding that those who are Elect do continue and those who do not were not elect after all. You are saying salvation is a free gift through Jesus Christ and then you are adding self through obedience which nullifies it as a gift. Don't you see this? Either it is a gift or it is of you, which way do you want to have it? It cannot be both.

 

[evangelist-7]

You are still concluding that those who are Elect do continue and those who do not were not elect after all. You are saying salvation is a free gift through Jesus Christ and then you are adding self through obedience which nullifies it as a gift. Don't you see this? Either it is a gift or it is of you, which way do you want to have it? It cannot be both.

I want to have as you, even you, can throw away a gift.
And thou has a choice: in the ocean, in a dumpster, or ...

Thou mayest use a gift, or ... well read above.

IMO, you can see that God's gift cannot be forever guaranteed to mean OSAS,
else why all of the continual warnings and threats to co-operate with God?

BTW, would you care to see the long list I have complied thus far? ... like 60, no 80.
Might require a special dispensation from DHK.
.

 

[steaver]

Yes, this is my own abbrev. for Born Again Christian.

I wish to differentiate between the born-agains and the intellectual professors.
You know, the ones who went to cemetary, er seminary ... just kidding.
.

Yeah, after I racked my brain awhile I figured it out, lol. Hey, I never went to seminary either, but we still have to properly divide the word of truth and that takes some study and open mindedness to wanting to know the truth. I know how you feel about the disobedient Christians, but we can become judgmental and that is also being disobedient and makes us just as guilty as they. And furthermore, I myself have been disobedient in the past and even now any given day and probably if truth be known unto me by God probably more often than I would care anyone to imagine.

Telling a Christian to turn or burn is not going to help them. We all need sanctification and this is for life, we never arrive in this body of death. Christians need encouragement, discipling, and yes WE need exhortation to stop sinning, but it does no good to give them the old turn or burn because it doesn't motivate because it is unbiblical and the Holy Spirit is not going to confirm it unto them. WE need love, grace, mercy in truth. This is what will conform the born of God into the image of Christ and all God would have us to be.

I'm a sinner Evangel, help me!!!! Don't condemn me, I'm a child of God. We are children, think about that term, children, we are as little children in the economy of God. Some of us are babes, some around 5 years old, some around 10, some 15, and maybe, just maybe, a few of us are about as mature as an 18 year old. That is where we stand before our Almighty God! Praise Jesus Christ for His unspeakable Gift!

 

[The Biblicist]

I want to have as you, even you, can throw away a gift.
And thou has a choice: in the ocean, in a dumpster, or ...

Thou mayest use a gift, or ... well read above.

IMO, you can see that God's gift cannot be forever guaranteed to mean OSAS,
else why all of the continual warnings and threats to co-operate with God?

BTW, would you care to see the long list I have complied thus far? ... like 60, no 80.
Might require a special dispensation from DHK.
.

What you are failing to understand is that the "gift" is not something EXTERNAL to your own Person. If you work on "knowing" God in my other thread you will have to come to conclusion that this gift has become part of your own nature, a nature which you could not create in the first place. A nature that involves more then spiritual union with God but actually consists of an inward nature now as inseparable from you as the human nature is now inseparable from the divine nature in Christ. Think a little more about it.

 

[steaver]

I want to have as you, even you, can throw away a gift.
And thou has a choice: in the ocean, in a dumpster, or ...

Thou mayest use a gift, or ... well read above.

IMO, you can see that God's gift cannot be forever guaranteed to mean OSAS,
else why all of the continual warnings and threats to co-operate with God?

BTW, would you care to see the long list I have complied thus far? ... like 60, no 80.
Might require a special dispensation from DHK.
.

But this is no ordinary gift brother. We are speaking of Eternal Life and the scripture is clear that when one is born of God one receives Eternal life as that Gift. You have to think this through, "Eternal" and "Life". The Gift is
Life and that Life is Eternal. Now why is it Eternal Life?? Because it is Jesus Christ IN you! The Gift also includes a New Creation, a New Heart/Spirit, a Rebirth of spirit. This is an act of God. The true convert would not have any thoughts of not believing in Jesus Christ, which is the faith which saves us. The true convert will continue to live the Christian struggle of flesh verses Spirit, and the true convert will spend however many days the Lord gives dealing with the sanctification process of ups and downs. We are sinners saved by grace my friend!!

 

[steaver]

What you are failing to understand is that the "gift" is not something EXTERNAL to your own Person. If you work on "knowing" God in my other thread you will have to come to conclusion that this gift has become part of your own nature, a nature which you could not create in the first place. A nature that involves more then spiritual union with God but actually consists of an inward nature now as inseparable from you as the human nature is now inseparable from the divine nature in Christ. Think a little more about it.

Hey! We must have been thinking on the same wave length :thumbsup: I was writing while you were posting on the same thought.

 

[evangelist-7]

Let's go a tad deeper and try to see ...

80 or so warnings/threats to carry on in the faith, be sanctified unto holiness, etc.
must lead one to believe that it is possible for a BAC to leave, fall away, rebel, be disobedient, etc.

Ergo, Eureka, etc. we have 2 types of BACs:
-- the elect BACs who make it through all the way to heaven
-- the non-elect BACs who, for many possible reasons, fail to make it

Over and out from Star #285027 (close to Pluto).
.

 

[steaver]

Let's go a tad deeper and try to see ...

80 or so warnings/threats to carry on in the faith, be sanctified unto holiness, etc.
must lead one to believe that it is possible for a BAC to leave, fall away, rebel, be disobedient, etc.

Ergo, Eureka, etc. we have 2 types of BACs:
-- the elect BACs who make it through all the way to heaven
-- the non-elect BACs who, for many possible reasons, fail to make it

Over and out from Star #285027 (close to Pluto).
.

Evangel, there is no such animal as a non-elect born again Christian. You cannot build a doctrine from something which does not exist in scripture. You are making that one up in your own mind.

 

[The Biblicist]

But this is no ordinary gift brother. We are speaking of Eternal Life and the scripture is clear that when one is born of God one receives Eternal life as that Gift. You have to think this through, "Eternal" and "Life". The Gift is
Life and that Life is Eternal. Now why is it Eternal Life?? Because it is Jesus Christ IN you! The Gift also includes a New Creation, a New Heart/Spirit, a Rebirth of spirit. This is an act of God. The true convert would not have any thoughts of not believing in Jesus Christ, which is the faith which saves us. The true convert will continue to live the Christian struggle of flesh verses Spirit, and the true convert will spend however many days the Lord gives dealing with the sanctification process of ups and downs. We are sinners saved by grace my friend!!

A good exercise for those who reject genuine salvation is to ask them to explain their doctrine in the light of the recorded life of Lot in Genesis with the conclusion of Lot's eternal destiny asserted by Peter. Furthermore, explain the difference between the recorded life of Abraham along side the recorded life of the life of Lot whom Peter says had a "righteous" heart but who lost the power of influence upon all of his own family.

 

[evangelist-7]

Evangel, there is no such animal as a non-elect born again Christian. You cannot build a doctrine from something which does not exist in scripture. You are making that one up in your own mind.

Okay, we'll have to go one step at a time ...

(1) Are there warnings/threats to Christians about losing salvation? (ref. OP).
.

 

[The Biblicist]

Okay, we'll have to go one step at a time ...

(1) Are there warnings/threats to Christians about losing salvation? (ref. OP).
.

There are warnings to PROFESSING Christians about losing their PROFESSED salvation. We live in the realm of profession not in the realm of omniscience.

However, there are clear and explicit statements that deny true born again professors can ever lose their salvation.

 

[evangelist-7]

Warnings/threats to EVERYONE on planet earth ...

If you are a habitual unrepentant sinner, you cannot have eternal life.
If you do not attain holiness (basic sinlessness), you cannot have eternal life.

If you repent of your sin, you are again cleansed of sin.
Habitual sinners are not classified as repentant sinners, so they cannot have eternal life.

BACs have the Holy Spirit, Who is able to lead them into overcoming their sins.
However, the BACs must co-operate with Him in their sanctification unto holiness process.
.

 

[The Biblicist]

Warnings/threats to EVERYONE on planet earth ...

If you are a habitual unrepentant sinner, you cannot have eternal life.

True born again people are not habitual unrepentant sinners. It is impossible due to the new nature and indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. God will not allow them to get away with sin that is why there is chastening even unto death.

If you do not attain holiness (basic sinlessness), you cannot have eternal life.

What is your standard of holiness? Like God - Be ye holy even as I am holy? Is that an attainable standard in your opinion? What kind of holiness does God have? Is he ALMOST always sinless, habitually sinless, or completely sinless? Where on this scale do you match????

If you repent of your sin, you are again cleansed of sin.
Habitual sinners are not classified as repentant sinners, so they cannot have eternal life.

Are you cleansed of indwelling sin - Rom. 7:18? Are you ever free from the sin of omission - Rom. 3:23 where you do not come short of God's glory - sinlessness??

At what point do you become lost due to sin? At the point of sin? At the point of realizing you have sinned but do not repent for over nine months like David's sins of killing Uriah and adultery? Whenever God may send a man of God to confront you as He did David???

There is no PERFECT HOLINESS attained in this life - YOU ARE ALWAYS AT ALL TIMES COMING SHORT and NEVER "perfect EVEN AS God is perfect." Holiness is always RELATIVE as growth is progressive and NEVER attained to perfection, thus you ALWAYS come short until glorification.

BACs have the Holy Spirit, Who is able to lead them into overcoming their sins.
However, the BACs must co-operate with Him in their sanctification unto holiness process.

.

You don't understand that your whole person is not born again. You have to deny "the law" of indwelling sin in the non-born again aspect of human nature. You simply do not believe in a salvation for the whole person which is in a three-fold process - past tense, present tense and future tense.

You don't understand that God has a purpose for sin in the life of the believer as sometimes the only teacher is the school of hardknocks. Because of your twisted view of salvation you have a twisted view of BAC's.

 

[The Biblicist]

True born again people are not habitual unrepentant sinners. It is impossible due to the new nature and indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. God will not allow them to get away with sin that is why there is chastening even unto death.



What is your standard of holiness? Like God - Be ye holy even as I am holy? Is that an attainable standard in your opinion? What kind of holiness does God have? Is he ALMOST always sinless, habitually sinless, or completely sinless? Where on this scale do you match????




Are you cleansed of indwelling sin - Rom. 7:18? Are you ever free from the sin of omission - Rom. 3:23 where you do not come short of God's glory - sinlessness??

At what point do you become lost due to sin? At the point of sin? At the point of realizing you have sinned but do not repent for over nine months like David's sins of killing Uriah and adultery? Whenever God may send a man of God to confront you as He did David???

There is no PERFECT HOLINESS attained in this life - YOU ARE ALWAYS AT ALL TIMES COMING SHORT and NEVER "perfect EVEN AS God is perfect." Holiness is always RELATIVE as growth is progressive and NEVER attained to perfection, thus you ALWAYS come short until glorification.



You don't understand that your whole person is not born again. You have to deny "the law" of indwelling sin in the non-born again aspect of human nature. You simply do not believe in a salvation for the whole person which is in a three-fold process - past tense, present tense and future tense.

You don't understand that God has a purpose for sin in the life of the believer as sometimes the only teacher is the school of hardknocks. Because of your twisted view of salvation you have a twisted view of BAC's.

The absolute proof that your position is not Biblical is that you have to flatly contradict the clear and unambiguous direct assertions by Christ that he will lose none given to him by the Father and that no true beleiver will ever be lost - Jn. 5:24; 6:37-39; 10:26-30; and these are texts where that issue is directly and clearly addressed.

In contrast your primary texts are ambiguous in regard to the specific point of true children of God. You must ASSUME it when these texts do not clearly state it. You have to ignore the fact that many of these texts deal with discerning between true and false and that this was a major theme with Christ and the apostles (Mt. 13).

You have to confuse different aspects of salvation and the texts dealing with these different aspects.

However, the bottom line is it is evident you conscience is completely seared by this error because you make no attempt to respond when your proof texts are exposed as improper interpretations and contrary to their immediate context. Your posts are repeated dogmatic assertions without any room for reasonable discussion.

 

[evangelist-7]

Anyone ready for 10 more of my favorite warning Scriptures to Christians vs. OSAS ???

There's no end to them really ... and they're there for a purpose!

The wise person reads, has eyes to see, believes, and takes heed.
.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Praise God for the abundently taught doctrine in the scriptures, known as once saved, alwayes saved.

What great provision our great God has laid up for us!!!