14 year old dating an 18 year old. Please read.

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
Some of us also seem to be confusing "dating" with "having sex".

Actually, we are not confused.

The teenagers that I have taught, who come from bad homes, good homes, pagan homes and Christian homes, who have started dating when they were 13 and 14 were having sex before they turned 18. Long before.

And I observed the same thing with teenagers who waited and started dating at 15 or 16, but found themselves very quickly in a long-term and serious relationship.

I know that there are many people on this board who dated their spouse when they were very young and waited until marriage for sex, but these people are in the overwhelming minority when it comes to the real world.

Young people who get involved in serious, long-term "relationships" at an early age are more likely to be sexually active before they get out of high school than young people who have less serious relationships and are much more experienced in platonic relationships.

Be they public school kids.
Private school kids.
Or home schooled kids.
Christian kids or lost kids.

I know there are people here who met young, married young, and stayed pure until they married. Don't scream at me or PM me and gripe me out.

I know that there are always exceptions to the rule, but exceptions NEVER nullify a rule or general principle.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
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[Benjamin]

Because a) they are morally and legally responsible if they have the maturity and understanding to make a genuine choice and b) because I don't like seeing people punished for arbitrary rules.

The young guy I mentioned earlier has spent 7 years in prison because two girls plotted and seduced him. Neither girl was innocent or inexperienced. How they reached that level of depravity by 14 or 15 I don't know... but it does not seem right to punish the young guy when they deceived him.

The law can certainly be abused, but without that law many people (parents) would have no control over an adult pursuing their child for sexual relations, no way to punish or deter them from abusing the vulnerability of a child they are responsible for. Laws like this also take moral responsibility and are abused by our society, but I do embrace this law as a tool for the good to do good.

After 60-80 years of feminism, even Christians assume that a "minor" that gets married or enters a serious relationship is "ruining" her life.

The problem isn't the age difference. Relationships between older men and teenage girls are very common historically. I have read that if Joseph and Mary were common for their time and culture, she was probably in her mid-teens and he in his late 20's or early 30's.

Sex should not occur outside of marriage. But a romance what many states consider a legal "minor" and legal "adult" is not necessarily wrong. In fact, the common paradigm that a girl should not marry until she is in her twenties, "an adult", graduated college, experienced, or other things contributes to promiscuity. The same feminism that convinced society that girls were oppressed if they were married and committed to a lifelong relationship before 20 also convinced most that the girl shouldn't be responsible as the "gate keeper" but rather should explore and experience her sexuality.

I would agree that the feminist movement has played a big part of this problem, but also was partly caused by men with lack of moral character and fortitude to be righteous leaders as they should be (which falls back all the way to Adam) and then raise their sons correctly to begin with.

Those are idiots. Not only are these young girls worthy of protection, men should see it as their responsibility to protect the honor and virtue of women. It wasn't that long ago that this was the norm. Women who slept around were whores and men who treated women shamefully or kept company with such women were considered classless and low brow.

Now women are expected to sleep around and men are heroic for promiscuity. That has little to do with age differences and everything to do with widespread decadance. It is ridiculous and hypocritical to throw a 19 year old in jail for having sex with a 15 year old while exalting the relationship between 40 year old men and women 18-21.

I agree that these problems have to do with widespread decadence and a lack of responsibilty from men, (just like Adam tried to tell God, but she gave it me to eat) but I don’t exalt an unmarried sexual relationship between adults either so back to moral character and fortitude of a father it is legal for me to get him thrown in jail but not to force him to marry with a shotgun in my hand so is it hypocritical and ridiculous to abide by the law if as a father that stands in righteousness?

I agree that those attitudes toward sex are wrong... as are the modern attitudes about commitment and marriage. But by your own testimony, that is independent of any age difference. Would you agree or disagree that a loving, non-physical romance between a mature 15 year old and a 21 year old is moral while a sexual relationship between two 21 year olds is immoral?

Personally, I would agree that there could be instances between a mature 15 year old and an (add) “immature” 21 year old that a non-physical romance may be appropriate but as a father I am glad that the government gives me a legal secular right of enforcement to go along with my God given right to say NO!

 

[Scott J]

Why would you add "immature"? What you are repulsed by was the rule for relationships in the past... if not more of a difference. It still is the rule in parts of the world.

Why would you want to say "no" if a godly, stable, mature, sober, well-intentioned young man fell in love with your daughter and wanted to court here with the specific goal of determining whether they are spiritually, mentally, and emotionally compatible to marry?

My parents are 8 years apart. They married when my mom was 18 and my dad was 26. They had exchanged letters for several months before they met... so she was 17 and he was 25 when their romance began.

Your logic is completely overturned by their relationship. They met and married one month later... and have been married to each other for 50 years this coming June. I would say that my 17 year old mother to be had the maturity to make that commitment. Wouldn't you?

 

[Benjamin]

Why would you want to say "no" if a godly, stable, mature, sober, well-intentioned young man fell in love with your daughter and wanted to court here with the specific goal of determining whether they are spiritually, mentally, and emotionally compatible to marry?

Because I raised my daughter and know her better than him whether she is ready for this type of relationship and commitment. I would need a lot of convincing FIRST!

 

[Benjamin]

And she's my baby

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Benjamin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Why would you want to say "no" if a godly, stable, mature, sober, well-intentioned young man fell in love with your daughter and wanted to court here with the specific goal of determining whether they are spiritually, mentally, and emotionally compatible to marry?

Because I raised my daughter and know her better than him whether she is ready for this type of relationship and commitment. I would need a lot of convincing FIRST! </font>[/QUOTE]Shouldn't you need alot of convincing even if it were a 16 year old? Perhaps even more convincing?

Do your really think your knowledge of your daughters readiness is infallible? As a parent, don't you think that your instinctive desire to protect the child that she used to be might blind you to the woman she is becoming?

In the past, men protected their daughters and raised them expressly to become good wives. Why would you be offended that a man recognized your accomplishment in your daughter?

 

[Benjamin]

My parents are 8 years apart. They married when my mom was 18 and my dad was 26. They had exchanged letters for several months before they met... so she was 17 and he was 25 when their romance began.

Your logic is completely overturned by their relationship. They met and married one month later... and have been married to each other for 50 years this coming June. I would say that my 17 year old mother to be had the maturity to make that commitment. Wouldn't you?

Yes, looks to be true for your mother’s maturity although I would guess your father’s moral character and maturity also played a major role in making it work and who knows what else.

Shouldn't you need alot of convincing even if it were a 16 year old? Perhaps even more convincing?

Do your really think your knowledge of your daughters readiness is infallible?

Okay, I was going to let you slide,

BUT by your logic why couldn’t we draw the line at the first sign of puberty, or even before that? Other countries marry off their daughters at 10 years old and they have a very successful marriage; why would you be appalled at that? Do you really think you knowledge of your daughter’s readiness is infallible?

As a parent, don't you think that your instinctive desire to protect the child that she used to be might blind you to the woman she is becoming?

Nobody's perfect.

In the past, men protected their daughters and raised them expressly to become good wives. Why would you be offended that a man recognized your accomplishment in your daughter?

First I will protect her… then I will see how offended I get at someone recognizing my accomplishment in my daughter. Depends if he can pass the test…when she’s ready.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by lil d:
my friend doesn't listen to anyone. sadly shes been handed everyhting in life without having to work for it. shes always had what she wants, what she needs and more. i really don't understand her sometimes.
as a teen, i have to honestly say that nothing you can do will get through to us (teens). that is not all teens i am talking about, but generally the ones that need it.

lil d, I somewhat disagree with you.
I have found that when I show unconditional love to someone, they usually respond.
Of course they won't respond when we are pointing our self-righteous finger in their face and telling them how bad they are.
But I take the long approach. I get to know them, show them I love them, and earn their respect. I become their friend. This is not an underhanded way of getting to them, but I truly become their friend, loving them unconditionally.

They may mess up, but I will still be there loving them, because once I become someone's friend, they are stuck with me.

I believe Christ is like this.
He loves us unconditional.

So, i do believe that there are ways to get to teens before it is too late. The problem is most adults don't want to do it the hard way, they just want to point their finger at them and tell them they are no good.

I am going to post a question like the one I asked lil d on the youth forum. instead of hi-jacking this thread.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

my grandparents on my mother's side were 28 years apart. he was 53, she 25. they had a wonderful 10 years together.

age doesn't matter if maturity and true love is there.

My beautiful wife and I have a 16 year difference between us. But, in this case, she is older than me.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Benjamin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> My parents are 8 years apart. They married when my mom was 18 and my dad was 26. They had exchanged letters for several months before they met... so she was 17 and he was 25 when their romance began.

Your logic is completely overturned by their relationship. They met and married one month later... and have been married to each other for 50 years this coming June. I would say that my 17 year old mother to be had the maturity to make that commitment. Wouldn't you?

Yes, looks to be true for your mother’s maturity although I would guess your father’s moral character and maturity also played a major role in making it work and who knows what else.</font>[/QUOTE] Not by a long shot...

Do you really think you knowledge of your daughter’s readiness is infallible?

No.

 

[Benjamin]

Yes, looks to be true for your mother’s maturity although I would guess your father’s moral character and maturity also played a major role in making it work and who knows what else.

Think I better fix this statement.

Yes, looks to be true for your mother’s maturity but I would guess it also included your father’s moral character and maturity which played a major role in making it work and who knows what else.

 

[Ciela]

I met a nice, good-looking 14 year old boy in Russia on a mission trip the same month I turned 13. We played hide-n'-go-seek and tag with the Russian kids our age, did flips side by side on the swingset, completed our schoolwork together, talked for hours and laughed at eachother botching up Russian phrases; besides our parents we only had each other to speak English to. To our parents, we just looked like good buds, which we were, but we were also becoming attracted to eachother which we did not exhibit noticeably.

One thing parents need to realize (and remember from when they were young!) is that kids aren't dumb and can be very subtle even when adults are around. It was cold, freezing cold, and I wasn't prepared for the Siberian weather being from the Midwestern U.S., but my friend was--he was from Canada. So, just to be nice (he was only 14, not some older boy who'd been on a dozen dates), he held my hands when we were outside, and made fun of this silly American girl who dressed like Siberia had balmy spring weather (when there were 4 feet of snow on the ground).

I don't think either of our parents noticed that he held my hand, and he really only did so when we were with our parents outside in the cold. Anyway, we were being silly one day while admiring the fish in the aquarium in the place we were staying, and I told him in Russian that I thought he was handsome (brash young lady!) and he gave me a kiss.

Yes, we were much too young, and although we didn't do anything other than kiss, both of us knew it wasn't right. I think more vigilance on our parents' part, who still naively thought we were in the cutesy little kid stage, and if we had concentrated on developing a platonic friendship instead of holding hands and kissing far too soon, we might've gotten married. We were 'right for eachother', but guilt eventually ruined what might've been for life.

Can't get the cart ahead of the horse, I learned the hard way.

Ciela

 

[2BHizown]

Oh my!

I'm telling you, kids are dangerous! I know! I had six of them, thankfully all grown now!

 

[blackbird]

I'm telling you, kids are dangerous! I know! I had six of them, thankfully all grown now!

And still dangerous, huh????:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Dale-c]

Benjamin,
You, as a Father, know your daughter. You think that she is not mature enough to date.
David,
You , as you have stated, know your niece. You also think that she is not mature enough. ( no matter what age the guy is)
You both are doing your best to see that the girls' best interests are seen to. BRAVO!!! You are the male authority figure in their lives. They look up to you, whether they admit it or not, for approval, unconditional love, and as a bit of a role model for someone to date in the future.
Most everyone else is disputing the age issue. What age it is "ok" it date, and what the age of consent is as it varies from state to state.
Well.....as far as God is concerned. (strange that not many people thought to check the Bible on this) Sex outside of marriage is wrong......NO MATTER WHAT AGE THEY ARE! So don't dispute what the laws in your state say, and Look up what GOD SAYS!

 

[Ciela]

I received some excellent advice from a good friend:

"you can't build a strong foundation for marriage based on the physical, or even on an emotional basis. Christ must be first--which means the standard for purity will be safely away from--NOT right on the edge of the cliff.

We made that very mistake--probably because we were too young when we had to deal with a romantic relationship. Setting an age requirement--usually 16--is a very good standard. Not allowing them to be alone--also a good idea. Kissing and holding hands--sorry for sounding like my grandmother, but one thing leads to another. You might not fall off the cliff, but why get close? Why tempt gravity?

Even when we did step back and evaluate our relationship later at about age 17 and tried to go back to square one, guilt clouded things, and once the cart is ahead of the horse, it is hard to get the horse back in front of the cart.

I wondered whether I should say it, but I will, you don't have to actually have sex to be sinning. The lines of purity don't just have to do with sex, but with the mind, and then in reality respecting each other enough not to deliberately tempt them. Our minds may turn to mush when it comes to love, but the conscience has a way of squawking when it's being stepped on.

Anyway, purity is a line not an elastic, and we all need God's help to draw it.

Ciela

 

[Hope of Glory]

I was 19 and my wife was 14 when we started dating. Although we have been married for 18 years, it's not something that I recommend.

 

[blackbird]

There is no way on God's green earth I would let any 18 year old boy date my 14 year old daughter. And there's no way on God's green Earth that I would let my 18 year old son dat somebody else's 14 year old daughter---I don't care if he's Billy Graham and she's Ruth Bell!!!!!

 

[Bro Tony]

And a BIG amen to Bro Blackbird. Ive been through the teenage years, no guy could even take my baby out without meeting me first. It was alot of fun seeing their faces.:smilewinkgrin:

Bro Tony

 

[Hope of Glory]

I had known her mother for 7 years before we started dating. It's not always a disaster. But, like I said, I don't recommend it.