1Cor 6:9-10

[freeatlast]

What does this mean to you? Do you believe what this says as stated?

1Cor 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Scarlett O.]

OK, here's my take on those verses, but I have to back up a little.

In the context of chapter six - back up to verse to verse 1. Paul tells them that they should not be taking disputes between believers to an unrighteous legal court. He tells them in verses 2-6 that they should be handling such matters amongst themselves because the saints will be judging the world some day that SURELY the saints can judge disputes amongst each other here on this earth.

In verse 7, Paul gets really harsh and tells them that it's better for them to accept the wrong done to them by another believer than to be an "utter failure" and take the fellow believer to court. These people must have been sue-happy like people today.

Then he REALLY lowers the boom and tell them that they are doing the exact same thing - "wronging and cheating" other believers just like they claim what is being done to them.

So we have the verse in question in its context.

Does any of you who has a complaint against someone dare go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels—not to speak of things pertaining to this life? So if you have cases pertaining to this life, do you select those who have no standing in the church to judge? I say this to your shame! Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who will be able to arbitrate between his brothers? Instead, brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! Therefore, it is already a total defeat for you that you have lawsuits against one another. Why not rather put up with injustice? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, YOU act unjustly and cheat—and this to brothers! Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom. Some of you were like this; but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

So, what do verses 9 and 10 mean to me? There are people whose lives are characterized by these sins. People who live out these lifestyles and don't care what God thinks about it. I would have to say that these people are not saved. I do not believe that Paul is speaking of a person who commits an act of sin on this list and repents of it. Nor is he speaking of a Christian who has rebuked this lifestyle yet still struggles with the temptations from time to time. He is talking about an unrighteous lifestyle that shows no submission to God.​

The point is that Paul is trying to get this church body to see that their wronging and cheating each other as believers and not repenting of it as a lifestyle and mindset is just as bad as a lifestyle of the things that he listed.​

I'm sure that this upset the apple cart of those church members in Corinth who thought that they weren't nearly as bad as "those people".​

This list isn't a grocery list of actions that give you an automatic one-way trip to hell.​

If it were, then I would have no hope.​

Just this morning, I coveted greviously - almost to the point that I would have made stupid and financially costly mistake. Greed was involved and jealousy of someone else and their property. I seriously considered a very greedy and insane purchase merely to "one-up" someone. But I faced my sin, allowed the Holy Spirit to convict me of it and I repented.​

That list contains some of the sins that I have engaged in since becoming a Christian as a young person. Some of them, I have engaged in more than once. But my repentance and Godly sorrow has always taken hold of me and led me away from them.​

These people in Corinth were CONTENT with their sin. Content in lying and wallowing in it. Content is maligning and cheating each other thinking that because they were believers that is just didn't matter what they did. And they needed so badly to have their teeth rattled.​

And Paul did it.​

 

[freeatlast]

I agree that the passage is speaking of those who are sinning at will without confession or repentance from what they are doing. These are those who are lost. The warning is given because these people thought of themselves as spiritual and Paul by the Spirit is warning them to take head to their true spiritual condition.
By the way this passage debunks any teaching that a Christian can backslide into sin as those who practice sin are lost. 1John 3:9-10 confirm it.

 

[Benjamin]

This reminds me of Ed Sutton's words while he argued for grace against what I would call “fruit inspectors”.

To the following question:

Was Peter born again, regenerate, before he denied Christ?

Ed replied:

Yes!(Matt. 16:16-17) In 'Boxcar" letters! And Peter was no more saved then (and no more nor no less saved) than he was when Jesus called him "Satan," and said Peter was "an offense" to Himself, a mere seven verses later when Peter argued that the Lord Jesus should not die and be raised the third day. (Talk about "crossless!") (Matt. 16:22-23)

And I will use "born again", "regenerate" and "saved", interchangeably, and ask about these individuals.

Was David saved when he was both a murderer and an adulterer? (II Sam. 11:24; Ps.51)

Was Rahab saved when she was a prostitute? (Jas. 2:25)

Was Samson saved when he was one of the notorious 'womanizers' in history? (Jdg. 14:7; 16:1)

Was Noah saved when he was drunk? (Gen. 9:20-24)

Was Jacob saved when he was the biggest 'cheat' and/or swindler in the Bible? (Gen. 27:36; 30; 31)

Was Gideon saved when he was one of the biggest cowards of all time, scared of his own shadow, his neighbors, and even his own father, and who argued with the LORD that he was too weak to do anything, and even had to have his father protect him, after the little vandalism incident of casting down the altar of Baal, that actually belonged to his father? (Jdg. 6)

Was Solomon saved when he was the greatest 'polygamist' in history (Compared to Solomon, the Eldorado bunch, are at best, fifth rate 'wannabes'!), with personal wealth that would make Midas look like a pauper, and with more wives than all the other kings in the line of the Lord Jesus of Israel and Judah combined, which was in direct disobedience to God's direct prohibition for a king to 'multiply' wives (and wealth) for himself? (Deut. 17:17, I Ki. 11:3)

Was Jonah saved when he was the most obnoxious bigot in Scripture, who did not want anyone to heed his message, instead wanting God to destroy Ninevah, where he preached a message of fewer than 10 words, from a street corner, effectively told the LORD, "Okay! I preached what you asked.", and was angry with GOd, when He did not destroy Ninevah, because they repented, said he'd rather be dead than to have to live with that crowd? [Jonah seemed to forget that he had already been physically dead, once before ('Living' people were not found in Sheol, the realm of the dead.) and he didn't like it, but still he was willing to be dead again, in order to keep down the 'population explosion' of 'undesirables' in Paradise, even if they were now among the 'redeemed'.] (Jon. 3:4-4:12)

These are just a few from the OT. Let's ask about a couple of folks you may have heard of in the NT.

Was Thomas saved when he "doubted" in that he refused to believe the testimony of 10 apostles who were eyewitnesses that Jesus had been raised from the dead, and said that unless he, personally, could jab his hand into Jesus' side, "Iwill not believe!", the most notorious 'skeptic' in the Bible? (Jn. 20:25)

Was Paul saved when he said he "am'chief' of sinners?" You do notice that Paul did not say he once was chief of sinners, I presume! (I Tim. 1:15)

And one more from the OT: Was that great 'role model', paragon of virtue, and whom I call the Biblical "saint of saints", because he is one of only two, or perhaps three individuals whom the Bible calls "righteous" or "just" three different times (and the only individual in Scripture specifically identified as being among "the godly") - "Yep! You got it!" - 'Hizzoner', himself, Ol' Lot, saved when he was the Mayor of Sodom? (Gen. 19:1; II Pet. 2:7)

Yes, they were all saved. -all 11 of 'em, as well, according to what I read. The first 6 are even found in what is described as the "Hall of Fame of faith" chapter in Scripture - Heb. 11.

The way I got it figured, including Peter, that's a Christ-denier, a murderer and an adulterer, to boot, a hooker, a womanizer, a swindler, a drunk, a coward, a polygamist, a bigot, a skeptic, the chief of sinners, and the Mayor of Sodom.

Hey, Nice Crowd!

Incidentally, I challenge anyone to show me where the Bible ever says any of them 'repented'. Of or from anything!

I miss ole ED Sutton…:flower:

 

[pinoybaptist]

........
I miss ole ED Sutton…:flower:

aye, aye....and incidentally, where IS ole Ed ?

 

[freeatlast]

This reminds me of Ed Sutton's words while he argued for grace against what I would call “fruit inspectors”.

To the following question:



Ed replied:



I miss ole ED Sutton…:flower:

Not only is old ed wrong but so are you. The passages given in 1Cor, 1John, are passages dealing with the practice of sinning not individual sins.

 

[HAMel]

FAL, just imagine one in the deepest, darkest place in Africa. Or born in an Aboriginal community in the Out Back of Australia. Or, even someone in North Korea.

They have never heard the word. Never been to a Baptist Church. Have no knowledge of our Lord what-so-ever. Can they become saved?

Well, I read the following in Romans 1:20

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

I understand this to imply that a person in any of the communities mentioned above can wake in the morning, look out toward their horizon and just come to realize there is a Creator somewhere. Hence, through this simple acceptance/realization on their part, they will make it to heaven. They never get Baptized, never support Missionaries, never visit the sick in a Hospital, never Tithe but rather, remain in their isolated condition until their death having never heard a sermon or received any other spiritual instructions from anyone.

Will they sin along the way? ...and if so will they still make it to Heaven?

 

[freeatlast]

FAL, just imagine one in the deepest, darkest place in Africa. Or born in an Aboriginal community in the Out Back of Australia. Or, even someone in North Korea.

They have never heard the word. Never been to a Baptist Church. Have no knowledge of our Lord what-so-ever. Can they become saved?

Well, I read the following in Romans 1:20

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

I understand this to imply that a person in any of the communities mentioned above can wake in the morning, look out toward their horizon and just come to realize there is a Creator somewhere. Hence, through this simple acceptance/realization on their part, they will make it to heaven. They never get Baptized, never support Missionaries, never visit the sick in a Hospital, never Tithe but rather, remain in their isolated condition until their death having never heard a sermon or received any other spiritual instructions from anyone.

Will they sin along the way? ...and if so will they still make it to Heaven?

Not so. That passage is saying they are responsible for believing that God is, not that in believing he is they get saved. If God sees a heart that is accepting the evidence that he is then it is His responsibility to get the gospel to them so they can accept the truth. Other words the best thing to do is keep the world ignorant of the gospel so they can get saved while they remain in their sin.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

With all due respect what you are proposing is a false plan of salvation. Unless a person comes to the knowledge of Jesus they cannot get saved. To come to the knowledge they have to hear about Him and if they get saved they stop the practice of sin.

 

[HAMel]

Someone says Top - You say Bottom.
Someone says Right - You say Left.
Someone says Correct - You say Incorrect.
Someone says Male - You say Female.

...ever notice that?

 

[webdog]

Someone says Top - You say Bottom.
Someone says Right - You say Left.
Someone says Correct - You say Incorrect.
Someone says Male - You say Female.

...ever notice that?

It is because nobody here can meet his standards of righteousness. The irony is the handle "free at last".

 

[Benjamin]

Not only is old ed wrong but so are you. The passages given in 1Cor, 1John, are passages dealing with the practice of sinning not individual sins.

The 11 examples were of people involved in a practice of sinning. Ed would say people are saved by grace alone through faith alone, not their deeds of repenting. I would agree with Ed. If your on a quest to point fingers and make personal judgments of when one has crossed over the “no coming back line” this would tend to reveal an attempt to add in some works and therefore some major misunderstandings of the fore mentioned on your part.

 

[freeatlast]

Someone says Top - You say Bottom.
Someone says Right - You say Left.
Someone says Correct - You say Incorrect.
Someone says Male - You say Female.

...ever notice that?

I assume you are directing this to me and I agree with you on this in part. I say in part because there are those who I agree with and I usually state it. However I also have another belief. That is that most of the claimed church is not the church and the beliefs they hold are in error. Second I believe the reason for this is because most of the real church, which is few not many, holds doctrine that is in error and that causes those who are false believers to be as they are.

 

[freeatlast]

The 11 examples were of people involved in a practice of sinning. Ed would say people are saved by grace alone through faith alone, not their deeds of repenting. I would agree with Ed. If your on a quest to point fingers and make personal judgments of when one has crossed over the “no coming back line” this would tend to reveal an attempt to add in some works and therefore some major misunderstandings of the fore mentioned on your part.

As for OT saints there is a big difference. They did not have the Spirit like we do. Also some of those mentioned were lost like rahab before she came to faith which made her a prostitute. There is no reason to believe that she continued in her occupation after that. As to setting a line the scriptures do that. True believers do not practice sin. Their life is one of practicing righteousness with some sinning along the way. What I can tell you with absolute accuracy for the church and those of this age is this ;
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Benjamin]

aye, aye....and incidentally, where IS ole Ed ?

Ed has gone to be with the Lord. Guess he found that Bible he often talked about that went missing out of his cab.

 

[HAMel]

True Believers do not "practice" sin on a regular and recurring basis except if they are unaware it's sin to begin with. On occasion a Believer can lose his/her control and sin greatly only to eventually catch on and then repent. None of us are perfect nor do I believe the Lord expects us to be perfect.

However, Believers "sin" on a daily basis. Should one claim they do not sin then the truth is not in them.

When I pray asking for forgiveness of sin, I include even those sins I committed for which I was unaware of. Seems to work for me.

 

[freeatlast]

True Believers do not "practice" sin on a regular and recurring basis except if they are unaware it's sin to begin with. On occasion a Believer can lose his/her control and sin greatly only to eventually catch on and then repent. None of us are perfect nor do I believe the Lord expects us to be perfect.

However, Believers "sin" on a daily basis. Should one claim they do not sin then the truth is not in them.

When I pray asking for forgiveness of sin, I include even those sins I committed for which I was unaware of. Seems to work for me.

No you may sin on a daily bases not every believer does so. If someone is unaware of something as being sin they cannot claim that they have sinned. It is the same in life. I do not speed. Others claim everyone speeds. Not true. However someone says what if you miss a sign and are speeding? Well if I miss a sign then I do not know about it and I cannot claim I was speeding until it is revealed to me. The same with sin. The scriptures say this;
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin
To claim that that we do not sin in any given day is not to say we know everything about what is and what is not sin. It is saying in everything we know we have not sinned. The spirit brought no conviction during that day. So if you are sinning daily you need to stop it as you dishonor the Lord and yourself as what would work better is for you is to stop sinning daily.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[HAMel]

No you may sin on a daily bases not every believer does so. If someone is unaware of something as being sin they cannot claim that they have sinned. It is the same in life. I do not speed. Others claim everyone speeds. Not true. However someone says what if you miss a...

This is a great opportunity to become really sarcastic..., but I won't. The door is open wide..., but I won't take the bait.

So let me just mention the word "Troll". Will that work? A little cleaner language and I'll just move on. In the meantime, I'm really glad to hear you don't sin and otherwise enjoy a spotless existence here on planet earth. See you on the other side.

 

[freeatlast]

No you may sin on a daily bases not every believer does so. If someone is unaware of something as being sin they cannot claim that they have sinned. It is the same in life. I do not speed. Others claim everyone speeds. Not true. However someone says what if you miss a...

This is a great opportunity to become really sarcastic..., but I won't. The door is open wide..., but I won't take the bait.

So let me just mention the word "Troll". Will that work? A little cleaner language and I'll just move on. In the meantime, I'm really glad to hear you don't sin and otherwise enjoy a spotless existence here on planet earth. See you on the other side.

It is a sad testimony when a claimed Christian use the tactics of satan to promote their beliefs as you have just done. I never stated what you just said. Remember;
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[webdog]

all liars,

Based on the self admittance freeatlast does not sin daily, maybe he should look in the mirror regarding his eternal destination.

 

[HAMel]

Based on the self admittance freeatlast does not sin daily, maybe he should look in the mirror regarding his eternal destination.

:thumbs: