Don’t bear false witness. Don’t twist things, that is Satans devices.
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1john 5:7
- Thread starter Bobwire
- Start date
Care to address why I know 1john 5:7 in the kjb is providential? Or do you just want to obfuscate the issue by pointing fingers while feigning self righteous indignation?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this made me chuckle
37818
Well-Known Member
What is "it" to be challenged? My question is how and why the God of His heaven needs His Persons to witness in His heaven to who?
37818
Well-Known Member
It is a persuasion that "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, . . ." Has no early Greek codex to support it. Please I would like to understand your evidence.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
At last, a statement that can actually be checked for fact.
Most versions (I am not sure if 19th Century translations qualify as “modern” or not) exclude the added text not found in the oldest monographs, however I found NO BIBLE in my limited search that completely “deleted” 1 John 5:7.
KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
NKJV
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
NLT
So we have these three witnesses[fn]—
NIV
For there are three that testify:
ESV
For there are three that testify:
CSB
For there are three that testify:[fn]
NASB20
For there are three that testify:
NASB95
For there are three that testify:
LSB
For there are three that bear witness:
NET
For there are three that testify,
RSV
And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
ASV
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
YLT
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;
DBY
For they that bear witness are three:
WEB
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
HNV
For there are three who testify:
The ball is in your court to support your thus far refuted claim and identify the “modern bible” that “deletes” 1 John 5:7.
37818
Well-Known Member
@Bobwire,
. . . in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, . . .
Tyndale, . . . (For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)
For there are thre which beare recorde (in erth: ) . . .
. . . in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, . . .
Tyndale, . . . (For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)
For there are thre which beare recorde (in erth: ) . . .
37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Adam Clarke, . . . 'may render the passage suspected; for the sense is complete, and indeed more clear and better preserved, without it. Besides, the Spirit is mentioned, both as a witness in heaven and on earth; so that the six witnesses are thereby reduced to five, and the equality of number, or antithesis between the witnesses in heaven and on earth, is quite taken away. Besides, what need of witnesses in heaven? '
Erasmus was ordered to find textual support to insert that into his Greek text, as was missing in first 2 editions, and final found a Latin source to use in his third Greek text edition
37818
Well-Known Member
And how does this inclusion in the TR help defend the authenticity of the Greek reading for 1 John 5:7?
It does that only for those who see the TR as inspired Greek text for today
37818
Well-Known Member
How do "those who see" the TR to be so? Or is this a false anti TR claim by you?
37818
Well-Known Member
A W. N. Pickering 1 John 5:7 translation note: 'Those who use the AV or NKJV are used to: “There are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.” The words in italics are only found in five late Greek manuscripts (less than 1% of the total) and part of the Latin tradition, from which they came. To be more precise, the manuscripts are: (61)[16th], (629)[14th], (918)[16th], 2318 [18th], 2473 [17th], wherein the cursives in ( ) all differ from each other; the two that agree verbatim with TR were probably copied from it. The only one that is clearly early enough to have served as TR’s exemplar, 629, is far too different—it lacks the seven last words in TR, omits another five, changes five and adds two—19 out of 40 words is too much; the Textus Receptus is not based on cursive 629, so it must be a translation from the Latin (or its exemplar is lost). The shorter reading makes excellent sense. [Those who make ‘the three heavenly witnesses’ a litmus test for orthodoxy are either ignorant or perverse (or both).]'
Those who are TR Only would see that text as being pretty much inerrant in the Greek text
Yet another troll like post, from someone who seems to suffer from derangement syndrome.
37818
Well-Known Member
And be wrong, thinking self to be right.
Proverbs 18:13
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it,
it is folly and shame unto him.
Was the reason for the OP ever mentioned?
I haven’t read anything that tells me what we are supposed to be discussing. Since I am not a mind reader, what are we talking about.
Do threads ever get completely removed? This one appears to be an embarrassing waste of time that won’t serve anyone who reads it.
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it,
it is folly and shame unto him.
Was the reason for the OP ever mentioned?
I haven’t read anything that tells me what we are supposed to be discussing. Since I am not a mind reader, what are we talking about.
Do threads ever get completely removed? This one appears to be an embarrassing waste of time that won’t serve anyone who reads it.