1st cor 9 v 27

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Now he will switch to the “Gospel” mission the “Gospel focus” the fact that His preaching of the Gospel of Salvation is such a consuming role that earthly benefit fades. He is under a higher calling

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />1Cor 9
16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
18 What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

This is key – Paul has just said that his “reward” is to “offer the Gospel without charge”. This is not a setup for saying “I buffet my body and make it my slave lest I CHARGE someone a penny for speaking to them about the Gospel”. His focus has not gone there at all. Rather he is still talking about his boast that he is able to preach the Gospel without reaping the due benefit/reward of earthly perishable gain. And he even counts that fact as “his reward” because it leaves him free from the sense of “owing” anyone anything..

At this point Paul jumps fully into the topic of SALVATION! He argues the point of wining the lost. He shows that his focus and goal is fully set on the salvation that is brought through the preaching of the Gospel!

Wining here is “Wining souls for Christ” in the preaching of the Gospel. Preaching the Gospel to others – resulting in their Salvation!

1 Cor 9
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

Paul shows that the “SAVING’ them is the whole point of this Gospel preaching. He preaches the Gospel to others in order to SAVE them. He mentions nothing about those saved getting big houses in heaven nor does he mention what great honor and room-size reward he is seeking in heaven. His entire focus is not on “What perk do I get” but on the great value/reward of SALVATION itself as the goal and objective of the Gospel received when preached “to others”.

Now comes that “unpleasant section” for many where Paul points out the seriousness of this Gospel pursuit for the goal of saving people -- so that I may by all means save some. as he says.

1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified

It is as a “fellow partaker of the GOSPEL” that Paul wants to participate in preaching. He then shows that his own example in persuing that goal of being “A fellow partaker of the Gospel” is the standard/model/role-model for the saints. He has left the realm of “I am a leader and Apostle and so I have special rights” to the perspective of WE ALL want to be “Fellow partakers” of the Gospel for as he has just pointed out when the Gospel is received the people are saved. (; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.)

So now in this “fellow partaker of the Gospel” model for ALL that Paul is offering (in the form of his own life example) he shows how it works. He shows the perspective of the saint, the attitude, the focus the Olympic ALL for the Gospel focus that is NEEDED. IN fact he argues that it is critical EVEN for an Apostle for even in this most exaulted case HE is at risk “LEST after preaching the Gospel to other I MYSELF should be disqualified” from that very Gospel!

How instructive!

Yet how fervently ignored by those who find this to be an “unpleasant” section of scripture!

Take each "detail" and show the meaning IN the 1Cor 9 context itself. Let the argument speak for itself IN the text you are exegeting.

Or do you read vs 23-27 and respond with

Are you saved by self discipline of your body?

And so when Paul says

1 Tim 4
14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.
16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

Do you respond with

"Are you saved by your efforts of paying close attention, persevering and taking pains with those disciplines?"

Will your response to each of these displeasing texts be simply to challenge them and show how your view of "other texts" don't allow these unpleasant texts to exist??


When Paul says

Phil 3
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Do you respond with I would hope that you are humble enough to put no faith in yourself........and at least a little in God!

In an effort to misdirect away from the texts above where Paul is being crystal clear – perhaps when you see yourself needing to “gloss over” the details of these text and you respond to them as “inconvenient” to your views on other texts (like Eph 2 for example) it is a sign that those other texts are being taken to extremes in your interpretation.

When we let THE TEXT speak does it cause you to immediately jump to some other "more comfortable" text?

IF so - it is a sign that you have taken what your comfortable texts do not actually say explicitly and have added "inferences" that were never in those texts to start with.

In the case of these "unpleasant" texts - it is the mere quote of them and the insistence on seeing their details rather than glossing over them that is causes so many to have heart burn. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
If that were remotely true - you would have detailed THE TEXT and you would have SHOWN the way that it points us AWAY from the GOSPEL benefit of eternal life and TOWARD - healthier skin!

That's a complete crock! All persons here are welcome to read THE WHOLE PASSAGE for themselves. It is evident that the passage as a whole is not talking about salvation.

Instead you simply assumed the salient point of your own argument AS IF it had been proven.

No, I simply refute the claim that this verse has a salvific context. It does not. Plain and simple.

That is good propaganda tactic on your part but does not help to support your argument.

The lack of salvific context is self evident. The passage as a whole lacks salvific content. Point refuted.

 

[BobRyan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BobRyan:
If that were remotely true - you would have detailed THE TEXT and you would have SHOWN the way that it points us AWAY from the GOSPEL benefit of eternal life and TOWARD - healthier skin!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a complete crock!

ALL can SEE that you did NOT refute anything, nor quote the text SHOWING it to make your point.

ALL can see you avoided the PROOF needed to support your CLAIM.

I am only stating THAT obvious fact above and observing that a COMPELLING form of debate (by comparison to what you did) would have been to FOLLOW your claim with some FACT pointing out how the text supports your view.

In the mean time I DID review the DETAILS in 1Cor 9 and SHOWED how my view is supported there.

The contrast is left as an exercise for the reader. (A simple exercise in this case).

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So that "AFTER preaching the Gospel TTHERS I myself should not be disqualified from it" -- has SOMETHING to do with the GOSPEL being PREACHED to others and has something to do with the danger of being DISQUALIFIED from the Gospel.


Though Paul points to physical and spiritual discipline -- the DANGER he points to is disqualification from the VERY GOSPEL He claims to preach and from the VERY benefit HE CLAIMS in 1Cor 9 that the Gospel HAS!!

This is impossible to duck, obfuscate or ignore as some are trying to do it.

It just won't go away that easily.

The text is way too clear for that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

What is clear is that you don't understand disqualification. This is not a synonym for "eternal damnation."

Moses was "disqualified" from entering into the Promised Land. He was still saved.

Quit trying to redefine the verses to force fit them into your human-centered self-righteous system of works that leads only to death.

It is impossible to please God through human obedience. Only Christ and His perfect righteousness pleases God.

Let us seek to be found in Christ's righteousness - not our own righteousness (Phil 3:9)
Lloyd

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by ascund:


What is clear is that you don't understand disqualification. This is not a synonym for "eternal damnation."

Moses was "disqualified" from entering into the Promised Land.

Being "disqualified from the Gospel" means "not getting its benefit".

Being "disqualified from entering Caanan means "not getting the benefit of entering Caanan".

The point remains.

"Lest after preaching (THE GOSPEL) to OTHERS I myself might be DISQUALIFIED from it (THE Gospel)"

By admitting to the obvious -- we avoid the error you have made Lloyd.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

I see you continue to make incredible errors!

Disqualification is NOT the equivalent of eternal damnation. Your statement was almost correct.

Bob: "Lest after preaching (the gospel) to others I myself might be DISQUALIFIED from it (THE Gospel)"

Truth: "Lest after preaching (the gospel) to others I myself might be DISQUALIFIED from preaching (THE Gospel)"

When you keep the parallel structure, then there is no room for loss of eternal life. Disqualification means loss of preaching privileges. Disqualification means loss of eternal rewards.

Disqualification is NOT eternal damnation!

Your continued error post after post stems from confusion of eternal destiny with eternal rewards, justification with sanctification, Christ's righteousness with Bob's righteousness.

While you were close, your "almost true" message is actually totally false.
Lloyd

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by ascund:

I see you continue to make incredible errors!

Disqualification is NOT the equivalent of eternal damnation. Your statement was almost correct.

You admitted that Moses being DISQUALIFIED from Canaan meant NOT GETTING to go to Canaan.

Had you quote my post regarding that Point - I would not be forced to repeat the same unnanswered point again.

In the same way PAUL points to the problem of being DISQUALIFIED from the gospel after preaching the Gospel to others.

"Lest after preaching (the gospel) to others I myself might be DISQUALIFIED from it (THE Gospel)"

Paul shows what the Gospel BENEFIT it in the preceeding verses and it is not MORE PREACHING - as you suppose! Rather it is ETERNAL LIFE!

Paul never points to "SAINTS being disqualified FROM PREACHING" in any of his Gospels.

The fact that you have to invent a teaching about "SAVED SAINTS DISQUALIFIED from witnessing" as you seek to salvage your views in 1cor 9 -- is a blatant and obvious red flag - for the objective reader.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified

Does that sound like "I do ALL things for the Gospel that I may PREACH MORE" or does the focus appear to be the BENEFIT of the Gospel -- ETERNAL LIFE?

Obviously it is the BIG picture - the ETERNAL LIFE picture that has Paul's focus NOT the goal of "preaching some more" or the bogus mythical problem of "SAVED saints NOT allowed to witness to their faith"!!

The extreme position you have taken here Lloyd is untennable!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[HanSola2000]

Bob Ryan is one of the best refuters of Calvinism I have ever read. Keep up the good work Bob!

 

[TomMann]

Originally posted by HanSola2000:
Bob Ryan is one of the best refuters of Calvinism I have ever read. Keep up the good work Bob!

Bob couldn't refute his way out of a paper bag... His claim to fame is to keep repeating his mindless dirvel until no one wants to listen to him anymore. And he is impartial, he will argue with anyone over anything as witnessed by this post.... Bob never lets common sense or rational get in the way of his convictions, much less the truth.....
Keep pluggine away Bob, there are lots of people that will agree with you....

 

[BobRyan]

Another textless post Tom? More ranting without a text in sight or a doctrinal point to make?

Do you ever tire of that?

Now back to 1 Cor 9.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by HanSola2000:
Bob Ryan is one of the best refuters of Calvinism I have ever read. Keep up the good work Bob!

Always glad to compare Calvinism to the truth of Scripture to note the large gaps.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified

Does that sound like "I do ALL things for the Gospel that I may PREACH MORE" or does the focus appear to be the BENEFIT of the Gospel -- ETERNAL LIFE?

Obviously it is the BIG picture - the ETERNAL LIFE picture that has Paul's focus NOT the goal of "preaching some more" or the bogus mythical problem of "SAVED saints NOT allowed to witness to their faith"!!

The extreme position you have taken here Lloyd is untennable!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

What you call "untennable" is nothing more than a COMMON SENSE reading of the text.

It takes a lot of theology to condemn Moses to hell - - but that you have made such an attempt only confirms that your system is a system of death and despair.

The COMMON SENSE reading of "disqualified" is simply unfit to deprive of rights. This happened to Moses. He was stripped of his position for breaking one of God's types. Yet, we see Moses talking with Jesus at His Transfiguration. Moses was stripped of rights (disqualified) YET STILL SAVED.

Where in the world do you get the aimless prattle that saved saints not allowed to witness to their faith? Such obtuse strawmen serve no purpose other than to reveal the nature of what you can bring to the forum - nothing.

When one cannot comprehend justification, then confusion over destiny and rewards is to be expected. You never did make a reply to the 40 occurrences of justification in scripture. How could you, you have nothing with which you can find to respond.

Lloyd

 

[HanSola2000]

No. 1Cor 9 :27 is another blatant denial of OSAS, plain and simple. Calvinism is a lie in all 5 points. Paul plainly taught conditional salvation in all his epistles.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by ascund:
Hey Bob

What you call "untennable" is nothing more than a COMMON SENSE reading of the text.

A "COMMON SENSE" reading of 1Cor 9:27 might have to QUOTE the text and might have to read and DETAL vs 20-27!!

Get it Lloyd? You have to DEAL WITH the text that you claim to be giving a "common sense reading" for!

Come on - you have to at least "try" on this one.

Can ANYONE point to anywhere on this thread where Lloyd actually DEALS WITH THE DETAILS in 1Cor 9:23-27??? Anyone!?

Oh wait! I know - you were waiting for ME to do that "again"!!

Coming up!


Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The long awaited link to THIS thread (for Lloyd)

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1602/2.html#000020

 

[BobRyan]

Lloyd
The COMMON SENSE reading of "disqualified" is simply unfit to deprive of rights. This happened to Moses. He was stripped of his position for breaking one of God's types. Yet, we see Moses talking with Jesus at His Transfiguration. Moses was stripped of rights (disqualified) YET STILL SAVED.

You have room to misdirect because in true misdirection fashion you refuse to carry your own argument forward when it is directly challenged!!

I already RESPONDED to your argument from the example of Moses being DISQUALIFIED FROM ENTERING the land of Caanan.

I already SHOWED that being disqualified from Caanan MEANT REALLY NOT GOING TO CAANAN!!

I already said that IF you wanted to cast that SAME style of disqualification as the type in 1Cor 9 THEN you have Paul talking about PREACHING the Gospel but then not wanting to be DISQUALIFIED from the Gospel -- for Paul HIMSELF explicitly SAYS IN 1Cor 9 that the DERIVIDE BENEFIT is ETERNAL LIFE!! The focus is there IN the text.

But as we all see - you do NOT carry the argument forward by RESPONDING -- you simply REPOST your initial view to get the SAME response "again".

As if that is in any way helpful!!

Why8 do you use such antics Lloyd?!!

You have to at least "try" on this thread.

Lloyd
Where in the world do you get the aimless prattle that saved saints not allowed to witness to their faith?

That is YOUR OWN desperate prattle as you TRY TO SPIN 1Cor 9 to say that Paul's Disqualification means "STILL saved, STILL a saint JUST not preaching to others about his WITNESS about Christ about what Christianity means"..

Get it? Yet?

Why not RESPOND to points instead of pretending you don't comprehend them Lloyd?

Where do you get the idea that such antics are helpful to you?

Come on -- Be serious.

In Christ,

Bob