2 Cor. 2:17

[Askjo]

2 Cor. 2:17 (KJV) says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

See the bold words above -- Do you believe in 2 Cor. 2:17?

Please explain the meaning of this verse. Why "corrupt the word of God"?

I have 2 seculiar dictionaries on the word, "corrupt." They define it:

1. Change from good to bad; having become evil, rotten, dishonest, incorrect, etc.

2. changed for the worse by mistaken.

Strong's exhaustive concordance of the Bible defines:

1. retail

2. to adulterate (a seculiar dictionay defines as "to make impure by adding a harmful substance.")

A Greek dictionary defines it as "While both invole the deceiful dealing of adulterating the word of truth, kapeleuo has the broader significance of doing so in order to make dishonest gain.

I do not want your criticism against the KJV, but I want your expository explanation on this meaning of 2 Cor. 2:17. What does this verse refer?

 

[Harald]

Myself thinks this verse applies today to the many worthless modern versions, especially to DE versions and paraphrases, but also to weak FE versions. It also applies to the many false gospels being proclaimed today. Interesting to note that the verb for "to corrupt", "to adulterate for gain" is a present tense participle, speaking about a continuous adulterating of the word of God on part of "the many".

Harald

 

[Pioneer]

The opposite of the word 'corrupt' is the word 'sincerity' which means 'pure, undefiled, perfectly clear.'

'Corruption' of God's word means that it has been changed to the point that it is impure, defiled, and unclear.

In expository preaching, an explanation must have an application. The application is simple: We should not change the word of God because the message will become 'corrupted.' Example: The flood of modern versions.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Let us turn to the Authorized King James Version
for guidance in this matter.

II.Corinthians II:17 (KJV1611):

For wee are not as many which
||corrupt the word of God: but as of
sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of
God speake we in Christ.

Translator's sidenote: ||Or, deale deceitfully with.

II.Corinthians II:17 (KJV1611 alternative rendering):

For wee are not as many which
deale deceitfully with the word of God: but as of
sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of
God speake we in Christ.

Using the alternative reading provided by the
blessed translators of the written word of God:
the Holy Bible, it is easier to see that this verse speaks
of HOW we deal with the Living Word of God:
Messiah Yeshua. This is NOT a message about dealing
with the written word of God: the Holy Bible.

Jesus Saves

,
the Holy Scripture does NOT save
(but Holy Scripture is useful for us to find
out how Jesus Saves).

May God's blessings flow rich and full
unto the reader's of this Forum this
very day. Amen!

 

[AV Defender]

2 Cor. 2:17 (KJV) says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

'Corruption' of God's word means that it has been changed to the point that it is impure, defiled, and unclear.

Exactly! consider Genesis 3,Luke 4:10,Numbers 22:12-13,ect.. So it is evedent that Satan is VERY interested in what God says,and is dead set on CORRUPTING what God said to cast doubt in the mind of the believer(see the above verses).So yes,CORRUPT is 100% correct,God does not make mistakes.

 

[Pastor Larry]

This verse more likely refers to the phenonmen found in Titus 1:10-16 where false teachers were teaching for the sake of sordid gain, that is they were corrupting the teaching in order to gain money ... i.e., they were peddling the word of God. The whole issue of 1 Cor 1-2 and 2 Cor 1-4 is that the Corinthians were trying to get Paul to change his message to attract more people. That would have been to peddle the truth in exchange for bigger crowds. "Corrupt" is not really what the word means, though it contributes to the understanding in that these teachers were changing (corrupting) the message in order to make their "product" more attractive to the "consumer." It is also clear that this verse is talking about the message itself, not the individual words that convey that message.

This verse has nothign to do with translations at all. It was written in the day before translations. That should be obvious, but when people are not taught to think in the historical context, they sometimes miss the obvious.

This explanation doesn't preach quite as well in the KJVO circles, but it has the added benefit of being what Scripture actually teaches. To use this verse to support KJVOnlyism is to do exactly what the verse forbids. It is to "sell" the teaching of Scripture in order to attract a following.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Pastor Larry -- Preach it!

 

[TomVols]

Larry beat me to the punch as to the accuracy of the word in question.

 

[neal4christ]

We should not change the word of God because the message will become 'corrupted.' Example: The flood of modern versions.

Thank-you for your opinion.

Neal

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Edifier:
Let us turn to the Authorized King James Version
for guidance in this matter.

II.Corinthians II:17 (KJV1611):

For wee are not as many which
||corrupt the word of God: but as of
sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of
God speake we in Christ.

Translator's sidenote: ||Or, deale deceitfully with.

II.Corinthians II:17 (KJV1611 alternative rendering):

For wee are not as many which
deale deceitfully with the word of God: but as of
sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of
God speake we in Christ.

Using the alternative reading provided by the
blessed translators of the written word of God:
the Holy Bible, it is easier to see that this verse speaks
of HOW we deal with the Living Word of God:
Messiah Yeshua. This is NOT a message about dealing
with the written word of God: the Holy Bible.

Jesus Saves

,
the Holy Scripture does NOT save
(but Holy Scripture is useful for us to find
out how Jesus Saves).

May God's blessings flow rich and full
unto the reader's of this Forum this
very day. Amen!

Why deal deceitfully with the word of God? Please explain your reason of "deal deceitifully."

 

[Ed Edwards]

Askjo: "Why deal deceitfully with the word of God?"

Indeed, why? For if we "triumph in Christ" we
will NOT deal deceitfully with the living word of God.

Askjo: // Please explain your reason of "deal deceitifully." //

In fact, the term "deal deceitifully" is the words (alternate)
selected by the translators of the King James Version 1611.
They are not my words. But these words refer
not to the written word of God: the Holy Bible;
these words refer to the living word of God: Messiah Jesus.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by JYD:

Exactly! consider Genesis 3,Luke 4:10,Numbers 22:12-13,ect.. So it is evedent that Satan is VERY interested in what God says,and is dead set on CORRUPTING what God said to cast doubt in the mind of the believer(see the above verses).So yes,CORRUPT is 100% correct,God does not make mistakes. [/QUOTE]

God instructed Adam restrictedly what He told Adam about the forbidden fruit, but the satan dealt deceitifully with Eve what Adam instructed her what God warned Adam about that same tree. The Satan twisted God's Word as we read Genesis 3. What about today?

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
This verse more likely refers to the phenonmen found in Titus 1:10-16 where false teachers were teaching for the sake of sordid gain, that is they were corrupting the teaching in order to gain money ... i.e., they were peddling the word of God.
It is to "sell" the teaching of Scripture in order to attract a following.

Please explain why peddling the Word of God. what about today?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Askjo:
2 Cor. 2:17 (KJV) says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

The Word of God was given by inspiration.

The Word of God was in Greek/Hebrew documents, not French, Spanish or English.

When a person translates the Word of God into any vernacular, the precious Word "might" be corrupted. JW's have done that in many places in their authorized translation.

In some places, sadly, the AV1611 corrupted the Word of God with their word choices, translation policies, added words, books, et al. I believe the MV's have likewise corrupted the Word of God by some of their word choices, translation policies, added words, (no added books, thankfully), et al.

This is why we evaluate every text in the Greek & Hebrew before we trust ANY translation in ANY version. Poor English translations in the AV and MV have led to some really poor preaching, and, sadly, some very wrong doctrine being taught (because of misunderstanding or poor word/grammar choices.

 

[neal4christ]

So yes,CORRUPT is 100% correct,God does not make mistakes.

Never mind the fact that is not what the Greek word literally means. God doesn't make mistakes, yet if corrupt is the correct word then for 1600 years God had mistakenly inspired the wrong Greek word. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the word means corrupt and God was wrong at first or God was right and corrupt is a less than accurate translation. Which is it, my friend?

Neal

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
This verse more likely refers to the phenonmen found in Titus 1:10-16 where false teachers were teaching for the sake of sordid gain, that is they were corrupting the teaching in order to gain money ... i.e., they were peddling the word of God.
It is to "sell" the teaching of Scripture in order to attract a following.

Please explain why peddling the Word of God. what about today? </font>[/QUOTE]Explain what?? To "peddle the word of God" calls to mind a peddlar who sells his wares. A false teacher who peddles the word of God changes the message of it so his hearers will buy it. It is clear this verse is not talking about translations or selling translations of the Bible because translations and the sale of them did not exist back then. Paul wrote this with meaning to the original hearer and that meaning is the same today as it was then. It refers to those who teach for the sake of sordid gain (Titus 1:10-16).

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Originally posted by Harald:
[qb] Myself thinks this verse applies today to the many worthless modern versions, especially to DE versions and paraphrases, but also to weak FE versions. It also applies to the many false gospels being proclaimed today. Interesting to note that the verb for "to corrupt", "to adulterate for gain" is a present tense participle, speaking about a continuous adulterating of the word of God on part of "the many".

o but why stop at DE? y not condemn FE as well, the Interlinear being far more literal n hence less "adulterated" than FE translations.

hey, even better, y not condemn the whole enterprise of translation, which essentially "dumbs down" the original languages for hoi polloi?

y open the floodgates of translation at all?

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
This verse more likely refers to the phenonmen found in Titus 1:10-16 where false teachers were teaching for the sake of sordid gain, that is they were corrupting the teaching in order to gain money ... i.e., they were peddling the word of God. The whole issue of 1 Cor 1-2 and 2 Cor 1-4 is that the Corinthians were trying to get Paul to change his message to attract more people. That would have been to peddle the truth in exchange for bigger crowds. "Corrupt" is not really what the word means, though it contributes to the understanding in that these teachers were changing (corrupting) the message in order to make their "product" more attractive to the "consumer." It is also clear that this verse is talking about the message itself, not the individual words that convey that message.

This verse has nothign to do with translations at all. It was written in the day before translations. That should be obvious, but when people are not taught to think in the historical context, they sometimes miss the obvious.

This explanation doesn't preach quite as well in the KJVO circles, but it has the added benefit of being what Scripture actually teaches. To use this verse to support KJVOnlyism is to do exactly what the verse forbids. It is to "sell" the teaching of Scripture in order to attract a following.

You had to say this, or else.

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

You had to say this, or else.

Or else what?? Oh I see,you have to atack the KJB in order to be recognized;sort of "rite of passage' if you will.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by MV-neverist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> You had to say this, or else.

Or else what?? Oh I see,you have to atack the KJB in order to be recognized;sort of "rite of passage' if you will.

</font>[/QUOTE]Where in Pastor Larry's quote did he attack the KJV?