#2 Greek Tenses and OSAS

[BobRyan]

Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

What is the "ROD" God uses??

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (Antichrist) the rod of mine anger, and the staff (Leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

Moses/Arron's "ROD" turned into a "SERPENT" when "cast to the earth" and so does the "ROD" God uses to "CHASTISE" Israel with during the trib. (SATAN)

Moses' rod turning to a serpent before Pharaoh did NOT represent God turning Israel over to Satan. It represented God DELIVERING ISrael.

Christ identifies HIMSELF with that liberation sahying "IF I BE LIFTED UP I will draw all men unto me" and saying "AS Moses LIFTED up the Serpent SO must the Son of Man be lifted up".

Now this is the symbolic assignment THE BIBLE makes not me. You on the other hand -- lack the verse that says "being turned over to Satan is part of the saved walk with Christ".

so the point remains.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Now this is the symbolic assignment THE BIBLE makes not me. You on the other hand -- lack the verse that says "being turned over to Satan is part of the saved walk with Christ".

so the point remains.

In Christ,

Bob

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,

that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Why do you think the AC is given "Dominion" (STAFF=Leadership) over Israel during the trib and allowed to Physically kill, "All MOST" all who worships Jesus and not the "image"???

What Paul wrote for the church to do, God does to Israel, he's no respector of persons with his chastisement.

For those who haven't "Rebelled" against God, (accepted Jesus) The "CHASTISEMENT" of our peace Jesus suffer in "HIS FLESH", therefore we "PASSOVER" (rapture) the Trib period when God is "CHASTISING" those who have rebelled against God, using the AC as a "ROD" for "destruction of their flesh". (Stripes)

Lu 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony;

and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The church only "Spiritually crucifies" the "OLD MAN" (flesh), Israel will have to "Literally Crucify" the "OLD MAN" (flesh) to be saved.

You have to understand "WHY" Israel goes into the trib, and "WHY" there's a pre trib rapture to understand the whole picture.

 

[JackRUS]

Bob might also like to explain the point where Paul was given a thorn in the flesh from Satan as well.

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the
messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." 2 Cor. 12:7

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Moses' rod turning to a serpent before Pharaoh did NOT represent God turning Israel over to Satan. It represented God DELIVERING ISrael.


In Christ,

Bob [/QUOTE]

Just what is the point of "Chastisement", is it not to "DELIVER" the child from "Wickedness".

Pr 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Ex 7:10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,

Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. (Israel)

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. (trib period)

21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

God's "ROD" turns into a "Serpent" just as Moses/Arron's "ROD" turned into a serpent.

 

[BobRyan]

Just what is the point of "Chastisement", is it not to "DELIVER" the child from "Wickedness".

There is no case where God defines his own work of chastisement (take Heb 12 for example) as "Turned over to Satan".

Satan is not in charge of disciplining God's children. If you have a text where God asks Satan to do Him some favors - point it out. Until then - Satan is at war with God Rev 12.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who needs to be disabused of the notion that Rev 12 is describing Satan as "God's little helper" can easily "come to the light" by just reading that chapter with an open mind.

Try reading the highlights -

Rev 12
3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, ""Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
11 ""And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.
12 ""For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.''

13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.
14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.
16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.
17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Just what is the point of "Chastisement", is it not to "DELIVER" the child from "Wickedness".

There is no case where God defines his own work of chastisement (take Heb 12 for example) as "Turned over to Satan".

Satan is not in charge of disciplining God's children. If you have a text where God asks Satan to do Him some favors - point it out. Until then - Satan is at war with God Rev 12.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]If you have a text where God asks Satan to do Him some favors - point it out.

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Flesh is made from "DUST".

Ge 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go,

and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

"DUST", (FLESH) is Satan's "BREAD OF LIFE" in the same (Spiritual) sense Jesus is our "BREAD OF LIFE".

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (EAT)


God gave Satan "ALL FLESH" for his "bread of life", and during the trib, God allows him to "EAT" his fill, but not the "SOULS" of believers.

This is why Satan can "CLAIM" (kill) the "FLESH" of believers but not their souls, he also attempted to "CLAIM" the "BODY OF MOSES", but God isn't finished with it yet, Moses is coming back as one of the Two witnesses.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Satan would also "CLAIM" our "flesh" if there wasn't someone who was "GREATER" than he "IN US", (Holy Ghost) so he must "FLEE".

Once "HE" is "taken out of the way" (rapture) Satan can devour flesh to the point "NO FLESH" would be saved except Jesus shorten those days.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Just what is the point of "Chastisement", is it not to "DELIVER" the child from "Wickedness".

There is no case where God defines his own work of chastisement (take Heb 12 for example) as "Turned over to Satan".

Satan is not in charge of disciplining God's children. If you have a text where God asks Satan to do Him some favors - point it out. Until then - Satan is at war with God Rev 12.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Have you read the the first two chapters of Job? And didn't I already point out 2 Cor. 12:7? Not to mention (but I will anyway) 1 Cor. 5:4-5.

Of course God is in charge of such discipline. But He does on occasion use Satan who always gladly complies.