2 Kings 23:29; Another issue with and a Question; Why Didn't the NKJV Translators Catch that?

[Alan Dale Gross]

"2 Kings 23:29; Another issue with the Question;​

Why Didn't the NKJV Translators Catch that?"​

• "In his days Pharaohnechoh king of Egypt went up against the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates: and king Josiah went against him; and he slew him at Megiddo, when he had seen him. (KJV)
• "In his days Pharaoh Necho king of Egypt went to the aid of the king of Assyria, to the River Euphrates; and King Josiah went against him. And Pharaoh Necho killed him at Megiddo when he confronted him. (NKJV)

"Clearly the NKJV is false by its own admission here via the parallel account in 2 Chronicles in the NKJV itself:

"2 Chronicles 35:20 After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Charchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.

"The KJV is nearly identical to it:

"2 Chronicles 35:20 After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by the Euphrates; and Josiah went out against him.

"Pharaoh Necho of Egypt fought against Assyria during the days of Josiah. King Josiah was killed in a battle at Megiddo, when he went against Pharaoh unadvisedly.

"But the NKJV changes the entire history to make Pharaoh Necho an ally of Assyria in one place to deny the Inspired History and to contradict itself in another place.

"If the account in Kings is true in the NKJV, then what of Chronicles in the NKJV?

"Why didn't any of the 130 translators notice this?"

I think that's a fair question.

Ahhhh, Slavin Perfunctory

 

[Deacon]

To answer your question, here's what I came up with.

The Hebrew phrase rendered went up to is used in 1 Kgs 20:22 to mean “to go against” or “to attack.” Various translations apply that meaning here in verse 29 by saying Neco “went up against the king of Assyria” (KJV, RVR; similarly SEM). Mft [Moffatt] similarly says that Neco “marched to fight the king of Assyria,” and NRSV uses the ambiguous wording “went up toward the king of Assyria.”

However, ancient Akkadian sources indicate that Neco was going “to help” (so GNT, NIV, NLT, BRCL, FRCL, SPCL) the Assyrian king Ashur-Uballit II and his army; and the writings of the first-century Jewish historian Josephus agree with this. ...

It is possible that the Hebrew phrase for went up to means “went on behalf of” here rather than “went against,” which is the usual meaning. Grammatical considerations favor the translation “went against” but historical sources favor the rendering “went on behalf of.” Translators must simply choose between the two possible translations. One other solution is to use a general expression such as “went up to see the king of Assyria” (so Peregrino) and to leave ambiguous the reason why he went.
Slager, Donald. 2008. “Preface.” In A Handbook on 1 & 2 Kings, edited by Paul Clarke, Schuyler Brown, Louis Dorn, and Donald Slager, 1–2:1310–11. United Bible Societies’ Handbooks. New York: United Bible Societies.
~~~~~~~~

Robert Alter footnotes:
against the king of Assyria. Something is awry here in regard to historical facts. We know from Babylonian annals that it was against Babylonia that Pharaoh Neco led his expeditionary force in 600 B.C.E., and Babylonia was aligned against Assyria, then in serious decline. Some scholars suggest reading "to," 'el, instead of "against," 'al.
The Hebrew Bible. Vol 2. Prophets, Nevi'im. Robert Alter. 2019. (2 Kings 23:29; p. 606).
~~~~~~~~~

II עַל: sf. עָלַי, עָלָֽי, עָלֶיךָ, עָלָֽיְכִי, עָלָיו, הֶעָלֶיהָ 1 S 9:24, עָלֵינוּ, עֲלֵיהֶם & עֲלֵהֶם, עָלֵימוֹ; עֲלֵי:—1. higher than > on, over: šākab ʿal 2 S 4:7; > in front of (if one person is standing & the other sitting): dibber ʿal Je 6:10, ʿāmad ʿal Gn 18:8; garment on s.one Gn 37:23; metaph. load (bride-price) on s.one Gn 34:12: duty: it is for me to (w. le & inf.) 2 S 18:11; ʿal w. ṣiwwâ, pāqad: order s.one to; w. sensual & emotion impressions: mātôq ʿal sweet to (your taste) Pr 24:13; on = (supported) by: ḥāyâʿal live by Gn 27:40;—2. upon = because of: ʿal-zōʾt, ʿal-kēn therefore; ʿal-rāʿātām because of … Je 1:16;—3. with regard to, concerning: w. regard to redemption Ru 4:7;—4. according to, ʿal-dibrātî according to the manner Ps 110:4; ʿal-pî = according to;—5. over against: ʿal-pānay over against me = in defiance of me Ex 20:3; > in spite of: ʿal-daʿtekā in spite of your knowing Jb 10:7;—6. (w. expr. of motion) onto: ʿal-hammizbēaḥ Lv 1:7; ʿālâ ʿal-lēb comes to mind Je 3:16;—7. upon = in addition to: w. yāsaf Dt 19:9; šeqer ʿal šeqer lie upon lie Je 4:20; lāqaḥ ʿal take (as a wife) in addition to Gn 28:9; therefore ʿal is used w. verbs of preferring, surpassing; gābar ʿal surpass Gn 49:26;—8. above = against, face to face w.: niqrâ ʿālênû meet with us Ex 3:18; implies weight, predominance, but shades into ʾel;—9. keʿal: keʿal-kōl according to all Is 63:7;—10. mēʿal from (upon), down from Gn 24:64, off (from) Jb 19:9; lēk mēʿālay get away from me! Ex 10:28; mēʿal le up over Jon 4:6; ʿad mēʿal to above Ez 41:20;—11. conj.: ʿal-belî in that … not Gn 31:20; ʿal lōʾ because … not Ps 119:136, although … not Is 53:9; ʿal-ʾašer because Ex 32:35; ʿal kî because Dt 31:17.
Holladay, William Lee, and Ludwig Köhler. 2000. In A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament, 272–73. Leiden: Brill.
~~~~~~~~

For the Chronicler the death of Josiah presented a challenge to his theology of retribution; defeat in battle for him represented divine disfavor, whereas victory was a token of blessing. If Josiah was such a pious king, how is it that he suffered defeat and died in battle? The Chronicler demonstrates the validity of his retribution theology by modifying the Kings account to show that Josiah’s death resulted from his disobedience to a divine oracle. Speech materials are commonly in Chronicles the vehicle of the author’s theological viewpoints; just as other war oracles resulted in weal or woe for the king receiving them (2 Chr 11:1–4; 13:4–12; 18:16–22; 25:17–24; cf. 16:7–9), here the warning is given by a gentile king. The author informs the reader that retribution theology is the focus of his concern by introducing the narrative of Josiah’s death with the additional phrase, “after all this, when Josiah had set the temple in order …”; the Chronicler commonly uses such introductory phrases to signal the focus of his interest (see Comment at 18:1).
Dillard, Raymond B. 1987. 2 Chronicles. Vol. 15. Word Biblical Commentary. Dallas: Word, Incorporated.

 

[Deacon]

So oddly enough, I’ve been working my way through 1 Chronicles lately (I haven't even looked at 2 Chronicles til this popped up).
I guess that’s why the thread caught my attention.

The 2 books of Chronicles are something I’ve never really studied… they start out so slow… chapter after chapter of genealogies… and then they repeat much of what was already written in ‘Kings and ‘Samuel.
... all true! …but there’s much more there than a quick read through gives you.

I began with Steven McKenzie’s, Introduction to the Historical Books: Strategies for Reading (2010).

He writes:

“The close similarity of Chronicles to Samuel-Kings has received a great deal of attention from scholars, and rightly so, for it is the only instance in the Bible where we have both an extended literary work and its principal source. We can get a clearer picture than anywhere else of how one biblical writer made use of his sources through supplementation, abbreviation, and adaptation. These changes provide insight into the Chronicler’s ideological interests and motives and how they shaped his literary activity. Studying Chronicles in close comparison with Samuel-Kings yields a clearer sense than anywhere else in the Bible of how its authors worked, how much freedom they could feel to shape their work, and by contrast what limits may have restricted them.”
McKenzie, Steven L. 2010. Introduction to the Historical Books: Strategies for Reading. Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge: William. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. p. 115.

(1) He mentions that the author would not have expected his less-literate audience to make close comparisons of his material.
(2) The text he used to write his material was not the biblical text we have before us today. His text differed and was closer to some of the material that has been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSama) and the Septuagint of Samuel.
(3) Whatever the similarities and/or differences, one must look primarily at the literary and theological message and ideas that the author was trying to convey.

“At the same time, the Chronicler does appear to have used sources that he does not explicitly cite. Additional information not found in Kings but historically verifiable could have come from oral tradition or common local knowledge rather than writing. The reference to Hezekiah’s tunnel in 2 Chr 32:30 might be explained this way, as could the correction of 2 Kgs 23:29 in 2 Chr 35:20 to the effect that Pharaoh Neco went to aid Assyria, not oppose it.” (ibid p. 118).

Rob

 

[Logos1560]

Have all the different definitions of "against" been considered?

Concerning the KJV’s use of against with the meaning “opposite, confronting”, Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle noted: “It is generally understandable as used in the KJV, but occasionally is ambiguous or has an obsolete sense” (p. 10). They noted: “A curious use of ‘against’ in a sense relating to time or preparation occurs in Genesis 43:25, ‘against Joseph came’ (p. 11) “Exodus 7:15, ‘against he come’”, “and 2 Kings 16:11, ‘against king Ahaz came’” (Ibid.). At the entry against, editor Martin Manser observed: “In a few instances in the KJV its sense may not be easily understood” (I Never Knew, p. 11).

How many of the KJV’s 1667 uses of this preposition against may be ambiguous, unclear, or not easily understood?

As Samuel Johnson’s eighth definition for against in his 1755 Dictionary and as Noah Webster’s eighth definition in his 1828 Dictionary, this is stated: “In provision for; in preparation for”. In his dictionary, Noah Webster then gave this example of against used with this definition: “Urijah made it against king Ahaz came from Damascus (2 Kings 16:11). In this sense against is a preposition with the following part of the sentence for an object.”

Is this eighth definition the meaning for how “against” is used in Numbers 11:18 [“Sanctify yourselves against to morrow”]? Does the KJV possibly also use “against” in an ambiguous, archaic, or obsolete sense in 1 Samuel 9:14 [“Samuel came out against them”] and in 2 Kings 23:29 [“went up against the king of Assyria” or “Josiah went against him”]? The 1833 Webster’s Bible has “Samuel came out meeting them” at 1 Samuel 9:14. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia suggested that “when used of direction,” that the preposition [against] is “equivalent to ‘toward’” (Vol. I, p. 69). At 1 Samuel 9:14, the NKJV has the rendering “Samuel, coming out toward them”.

 

[Logos1560]

"2 Kings 23:29; Another issue with the Question;​

I think that's a fair question.

Your question was answered by the clear evidence that you may be misunderstanding or misinterpreting how the KJV used the word "against" at this verse.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Have all the different definitions of "against" been considered?

How many of the KJV’s 1667 uses of this preposition against may be ambiguous, unclear, or not easily understood?

Your question was answered by the clear evidence that you may be misunderstanding or misinterpreting how the KJV used the word "against" at this verse.

It is interesting to see the interest generated concerning this preposition translated "against", which could just as easily be "to";
to
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's 5921: Above, over, upon, against

however, some attention may need to be given to the verb preceding it (left to right anyway) in that prepositional phase;
marched up
עָלָה֩ (‘ā·lāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 5927: To ascend, in, actively

2 Kings 23:29
HEB: בְּיָמָ֡יו עָלָה֩ פַרְעֹ֨ה נְכֹ֧ה
NAS: of Egypt went up to the king
KJV: of Egypt went up against the king
INT: his days went Pharaoh king

New King James Version
"In his days Pharaoh Necho king of Egypt went to the aid of the king of Assyria, to the River Euphrates; and King Josiah went against him. And Pharaoh Necho killed him at Megiddo when he confronted him."

Then, again from 2 Kings 23:29 companion verse in

2 Chronicles 35:20
HEB: אֶת־ הַבַּ֔יִת עָלָ֞ה נְכ֧וֹ מֶֽלֶךְ־
NAS: of Egypt came up to make war
KJV: of Egypt came up to fight
INT: Josiah the temple came Neco king

New King James Version
"After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by the Euphrates; and Josiah went out against him."

And, of course, the remaining narrative in 2 Chronicles 35:20-23 tell us plainly what Pharaoh Necho's intentions were regarding

20; "After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.

21; "But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, Who is with me, that He destroy thee not.

22; "Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo.

23; "And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants, Have me away; for I am sore wounded."

New International Version
But Necho sent messengers to him, saying, “What quarrel is there, king of Judah, between you and me? It is not you I am attacking at this time, but the house with which I am at war. God has told me to hurry; so stop opposing God, who is with me, or he will destroy you.”

New Living Translation
But King Neco sent messengers to Josiah with this message: “What do you want with me, king of Judah? I have no quarrel with you today! I am on my way to fight another nation, and God has told me to hurry! Do not interfere with God, who is with me, or he will destroy you.”

English Standard Version
But he sent envoys to him, saying, “What have we to do with each other, king of Judah? I am not coming against you this day, but against the house with which I am at war. And God has commanded me to hurry. Cease opposing God, who is with me, lest he destroy you.”

Berean Standard Bible
But Neco sent messengers to him, saying, “What is the issue between you and me, O king of Judah? I have not come against you today, but I am fighting another dynasty, and God has told me to hurry. So stop opposing God, who is with me, or He will destroy you!”

King James Bible
But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that he destroy thee not.

New King James Version
But he sent messengers to him, saying, “What have I to do with you, king of Judah? I have not come against you this day, but against the house with which I have war; for God commanded me to make haste. Refrain from meddling with God, who is with me, lest He destroy you.”

New American Standard Bible
But Neco sent messengers to him, saying, “What business do you have with me, King of Judah? I am not coming against you today, but against the house with which I am at war, and God has told me to hurry. For your own sake, stop interfering with God who is with me, so that He does not destroy you.”

​

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Apparently, there are those who stress the speculation with regard to what exactly Pharaoh Nechoh's intentions were toward 'the king of Assyria', in order to better reconcile this passage with fairly reliable history.
​

Robert Alter footnotes:
against the king of Assyria. Something is awry here in regard to historical facts. We know from Babylonian annals that it was against Babylonia that Pharaoh Neco led his expeditionary force in 600 B.C.E., and Babylonia was aligned against Assyria, then in serious decline.

However, ancient Akkadian sources indicate that Neco was going “to help” (so GNT, NIV, NLT, BRCL, FRCL, SPCL) the Assyrian king Ashur-Uballit II and his army; and the writings of the first-century Jewish historian Josephus agree with this. ...

Grammatical considerations favor the translation “went against” but historical sources favor the rendering “went on behalf of.” Translators must simply choose between the two possible translations.

One other solution is to use a general expression such as “went up to see the king of Assyria” (so Peregrino) and to leave ambiguous the reason why he went.

And yet, the King James Bible is also a very reliable history of its own.

So, what gives? Did Pharaoh Nechoh go to 'fight' the 'king of Assyria' or to come to his 'aid'?

The answer is according to which 'king of Assyria' we're talking about.

The 'king of Assyria' that Pharaohnechoh king of Egypt (Pharaoh the lame or Necos the son of Psammiticus) went up against was the 'king of Babylon' who had conquered the Assyrian monarchy, so that 'king of Babylon' was called the 'king of Assyria'; and is said by some to be Nabopolassar; or, according to Marsham (y), he was Chyniladanus:​

While there have sometimes been alterations forced into the 2 Kings 23:29 text in an attempt to accommodate secular history, they are seen to contradict the same version's accounts of the same incident in 2 Chronicles 35:20-23.

However, that extra-Biblical 'need for accommodation' was not necessary, because when Pharaoh Nechoh king of Egypt went up against the king of 'Assyria' he was in fact the 'king of Babylon' who had conquered the Assyrian monarchy and who was now called the 'king of Assyria'; Nabopolassar or Chyniladanus.

If they had the discipline to stick with the text and the knowledge to know why that would be perfectly appropriate, the NKJV translators would not have had to stress any other speculations and alter it.