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Here's the "they" -- "9 The Lord knoweth how ... to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."Cody2 said:2 Peter 2:21
"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." KJV
I'm currently studying it and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this verse.
God Bless
:laugh:EdSutton said:Not plumb sure, but I didn't think 2 Peter had 21 chapters!
Ed
EdSutton said:Oh! Musta' been a :type:!
Ed
skypair said:Here's the "they" -- "9 The Lord knoweth how ... to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."
"Unjust" = "unsaved." In this case, it appears they are false teachers having some authority and knowledge of the truth in the church or in the synagogue. This parallels Mt 23.
skypair
skypair said:Here's the "they" -- "9 The Lord knoweth how ... to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."
"Unjust" = "unsaved." In this case, it appears they are false teachers having some authority and knowledge of the truth in the church or in the synagogue. This parallels Mt 23.
skypair
I would be really interested in knowing exactly what sins causes a person to be saved then not, and as a followup, what that person could do to regain salvation.lbaker said:This verse sounds like these folks were saved at one point:
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
And again here:
20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
I dunno, sure sounds like those guys were saved...
Les
saturneptune said:I would be really interested in knowing exactly what sins causes a person to be saved then not, and as a followup, what that person could do to regain salvation.
It seems that Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if it were possible to lose salvation, then it would be impossible to regain it.
saturneptune said:I would be really interested in knowing exactly what sins causes a person to be saved then not, and as a followup, what that person could do to regain salvation.
Maybe another dumb question on my part, but why would someone who would "secretly introduce destructive heresies, and deny the sovereign Lord" be saved in the first place?lbaker said:Maybe this is it, denying Jesus?
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
saturneptune said:Maybe another dumb question on my part, but why would someone who would "secretly introduce destructive heresies, and deny the sovereign Lord" be saved in the first place?
saturneptune said:Maybe another dumb question on my part, but why would someone who would "secretly introduce destructive heresies, and deny the sovereign Lord" be saved in the first place?
That is exactly right. I will admit though, I do not know enough about the Hebrew and Greek to comment on the phrase "that the Lord bought", however, in the light of other Scripture, it does not mean they lost their salvation.LeBuick said:Oh, so you mean they were never saved to begin with?
:laugh: :laugh: :wavey:
lbaker said:Maybe this is it, denying Jesus?
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
even denying the Lord that bought them; not the Lord Jesus Christ, but God the Father; for the word kuriov is not here used, which always is where Christ is spoken of as the Lord, but despothv; and which is expressive of the power which masters have over their servants {i}, and which God has over all mankind; and wherever this word is elsewhere used, it is spoken of God the Father, whenever applied to a divine person, as in Lu 2:29 and especially this appears to be the sense, from the parallel text in Jude 1:4 where the Lord God denied by those men is manifestly distinguished from our Lord Jesus Christ, and by whom these persons are said to be bought: the meaning is not that they were redeemed by the blood of Christ, for Christ is not intended; and besides, whenever redemption by Christ is spoken of, the price is usually mentioned, or some circumstance or another which fully determines the sense; see
Ac 20:28 whereas here is not the least hint of anything of this kind: add to this, that such who are redeemed by Christ are the elect of God only, the people of Christ, his sheep and friends, and church, and who are never left to deny him so as to perish eternally; for could such be lost, or deceive, or be deceived finally and totally by damnable heresies, and bring on themselves swift destruction, Christ's purchase would be in vain, and the ransom price be paid for nought; but the word "bought" regards temporal mercies and deliverance, which these men enjoyed, and is used as an aggravation of their sin in denying the Lord; both by words, delivering out such tenets as are derogatory to the glory of the divine perfections, and which deny one or other of them, and of his purposes, providence, promises, and truths; and by works, turning the doctrine of the grace of God into lasciviousness, being disobedient and reprobate to every good work; that they should act this part against the Lord who had made them, and upheld them in their beings and took care of them in his providence, and had followed them with goodness and mercy all the days of their lives; just as Moses aggravates the ingratitude of the Jews in De 32:6 from whence this phrase is borrowed, and to which it manifestly refers: "do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise! is not he thy Father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?" nor is this the only place the apostle refers to in this chapter, see 2Pe 2:12 compared with
De 32:5 and it is to be observed, that the persons he writes to were Jews, who were called the people the Lord had redeemed and purchased, Ex 15:13 and so were the first false teachers that rose up among them; and therefore this phrase is very applicable to them:
Les, what is the verse that says "knowing our Lord and Savior"?lbaker said:Hmmmm, well maybe, but there's no doubt that this is referring to Jesus:
by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ