2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

What a waste of band width, out of all that mess you only have one verse on the Rapture. </font>[/QUOTE]If you are talking about a pre-trib rapture it is a stretch to get even one verse. </font>[/QUOTE]I call your bluff. Unless you provide the
page of the quote, then you have misquoated
Brother Prophecynut. Thank you.
BTW, don't bother to look on pages 9-15 cause
the quote doesn't come from these pages. </font>[/QUOTE]Then you should have no trouble quoting one verse. You have never done so, neither has anyone else, for the simple reason the pre-trib rapture is false doctrine.

By the way Ed Ed I didn't quote anyone. Read my initial post again please:

 

deleted at reqest of poster

[ September 23, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Somebody may have said:
"If you are talking about a pre-trib rapture it
is a stretch to get even one verse."
But it is hard to tell if anyone did. If nobody
said it, then consider it a strawman.

Here are some Bible Passages that you
need to ignore for that statement to be true:
(BTW, notice this is the subject verse
for this Topic):
------------------------------------------
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV1873):
Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,

Two events mentioned here:
1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
2) our gathering together unto him

Titus 2:13 (KJV1873):
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

Two events mentioned here:
1) blessed hope
2) the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

These two events are mentioned seperately
throughout the Bible. The Rapture, which
was a mystery in the O.T. is now mentioned
in the N.T.

Rapture Passages (the gathering, the blessed hope):

Matthew 24:31-44 (in the Mount Olivet Discourse
---/mod/ and parallel passages in Mark 13 & Luke 21)
John 14:1-3
Romans 8:19
1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 15:51-53, 16:22
Philippians 3:20-21, 4:5
Colossians 3:4
1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9,23
2 Thessalonians 1:7, 2:1, 2:3
1 Timothy 6:14
2 Timothy 4:1,8
Hebrews 9:28
1 Peter 1:7,13, 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 1:21
Revelation 2:25

Second Advent Passages
(Jesus comes again in power and glory
to defeat the antichrist and set up the
millinnial kingdom):

Daniel 2:44-45, 7:9-14, 12:1-3
Zechariah 12:10, 14:1-15
Matthew 13:41
Matthew 24:15-30, 26:64
Mark 13
Luke 21
Acts 1:9-11, 3:19-21
1 Thessalonians 3:13
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, 2:8
1 Peter 4:12-19
2 Peter 3:1-14
Jude 1:14-15
Revelation 4-19
------------------------------------------

 

Ed

Can't you understand plain English. I said:

I did not quote prophecynut, I did not quote Claudia, I did not even quote you. I made a simple statement!

To interpret what I said so that even you can understand. There is no Scripture to support the pre-trib rapture, not even one. The pre-trib rapture is the figament of John Nelson Darby's fertile imagination.

Now come back with another long unintelligible post.

 

What a waste of band width, out of all that mess you only have one verse on the Rapture.</font>[/QUOTE]

So "OldRegular" is not "pre-trib"??

Post Trib??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Matt 24 points to a POST TRIB rapture - you have to IGNORE the sequence of Matt 24 to get pre-trib EVEN though it points to POST TRIB.

Daniel 2 does not menion the rapture AT ALL!!

Daniel 7 shows a POST TRIB rest for the saints but NOTHING pretrib.

1 Thess 4 does not mention the tribulation AT ALL!

2Thess 2 shows a POST Trib reward for the saints.

Rev 19-20 shows POST trib rapture/resurrection/reward for the saints.

The POST trib model has its way repeatedly in scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

You draw heavily on Matt 24 for the false claim that NO SIGNS preceed the rapture. Yet in Matt 24 we SEE the SIGNS PRECEEDING the rapture and we SEE the rapture POST Trib!

How can you keep ignoring all the disconfirming evidence of Matt 24 as you seek to use it in support of a pre-trib rapture??!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Notice also the SIGNS mentioned in Matt 24 about the sun darkened the stars falling etc - that all PRECEED the appearing of Christ? That preceed what Ed is calling the rapture (and what I would call the rapture as well) POST Trib!!.

In Christ,

Bob

 

God the Father

 

Maybe some of this material will help somebody:


1000 Years of Peace

You can be certain that it's coming - an incredible millennium that will be ushered in after Christ's return. And the devil doesn't want you to know about his 1,000-year prison sentence because it reveals his true character. In fact, Satan has concocted a counterfeit message on the millennium to trick you! It's an awesome, fascinating study that will utterly shake everything you've ever known! Now you can have the Bible's amazing truths about the coming 1,000-year reign.



1. What event begins this 1,000-year period?


"These came to life again and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Revelation 20:4, NEB, last part of verse.*

Answer: A resurrection begins the 1,000-year period.


*The New English Bible, (C) 1961, 1970 by the Delegates of the Oxford University Press and the Syndics of the Cambridge University Press. Used by permission.


2. What is this resurrection called? Who will be raised in it?


The 1000-year period begins at the resurrection of the righteous.
"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection." Revelation 20:5, 6.

Answer: It is called the first resurrection. The righteous people--"blessed and holy" of all ages--will be raised in it.


3. The Bible says there are two resurrections. When is the second resurrection, and who will be raised in it?


The 1000-year period ends at the resurrection of the wicked.
"The rest of the dead [those who were wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Revelation 20:5. "All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29.

Answer: The second resurrection takes place at the close of the 1,000-year period. The wicked will be raised in this resurrection. It is called the resurrection of damnation.

Please notice: The resurrection of the righteous begins the 1,000 years. The resurrection of the wicked ends the 1,000 years.


4. What other momentous events take place when the 1,000 years begin?

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." Revelation 1:7. "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, ... and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. "And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent [scholarly estimates vary from 58 to 100 pounds]." Revelation 16:18, 20, 21. (See also Jeremiah 4:23-26; Isaiah 24:1, 3, 19, 20; Isaiah 2:21.)

Answer: Other momentous events that take place as the 1,000 years begin are: the most devastating earthquake and hailstorm in history strike the earth; Jesus returns in the clouds for His people; and all the saints are caught up into the air to meet Jesus.

A devastating earthquake and hailstorm will strike the earth at Jesus' second coming. At that time the righteous of all ages will rise to meet Jesus in the air.



5. What happens to the wicked--living and dead--at Jesus' second coming?


The living wicked will be slain by the brightness of Jesus' second coming.
"With the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." Isaiah 11:4. "When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." 2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8. "Let the wicked perish at the presence of God." Psalm 68:2. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Revelation 20:5.

Answer: The living wicked will be slain by the very presence of Christ at the second coming. When an angel appeared at Jesus' tomb, the entire group of Roman guards fell as dead men (Matthew 28:2, 4). When the brightness of all the angels, God the Father, and God the Son combine, the wicked will die as if hit by lightning. The wicked already dead when Jesus returns will remain in their graves until the end of the 1,000 years.


6. Many believe the unsaved will have an opportunity to repent during the 1,000 years. What does the Bible say about this?


The righteous will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 years.
"The slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." Jeremiah 25:33. "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man." Jeremiah 4:25.

Answer: The wicked dead will lie upon the earth during the 1,000 years.
It is impossible for any person to repent during the 1,000 years because there will not be a person alive on earth. The righteous will all be in heaven. All the wicked will be lying dead upon the earth. Revelation 22:11, 12 makes it clear that the case of every person is closed before Jesus returns. Those who wait to accept Christ until the 1,000 years begin will have waited too long.


7. The Bible says that Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit during the 1,000 years. What is this pit?

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit. ... And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit ... till the thousand years should be fulfilled." Revelation 20:1-3.
The earth, in a torn-up, darkened condition, is the "bottomless pit" where Satan will be forced to stay during the 1,000 years.


Answer: The word for "bottomless pit" in the original Greek is "abussos," or abyss. That same word is used in the Greek version of the Old Testament in Genesis 1:2 in connection with the creation of the earth, but there it is translated "deep." "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." How interesting! The words "deep," "bottomless pit," and "abyss" here refer to the same thing?the earth in its totally dark, disorganized form before God made order of it. Jeremiah, in describing this earth during the 1,000 years, used virtually the same terms as these in Genesis 1:2: "without form and void," "no light," "no man," 'black." Jeremiah 4:23, 25, 28. So the battered, dark earth with no people alive will be called the bottomless pit, or abyss, during the 1,000 years just as it was in the beginning before Creation was completed. Isaiah 24:22 also speaks of Satan and his angels during the 1,000 years as "gathered in the pit" and "shut up in the prison."


8. What is the chain that binds Satan? Why is he bound?

"An angel ... having ... a great chain in his hand ... laid hold on ... Satan, and bound him a thousand years, ... and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled." Revelation 20:1-3.

Answer: The chain is symbolic--a chain of circumstances. A spirit being cannot be confined with a literal chain. Satan is "tied down" because he has no people to deceive. The wicked are all dead and the righteous are all in heaven. The Lord confines the devil to this earth so he cannot roam the universe hoping to find someone to deceive. Forcing the devil to stay on the earth, alone with his demons for a thousand years with no one to deceive, will be for him the most galling chain ever forged.


REVIEW THE EVENTS OCCURRING
AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 1,000 YEARS:
Devastating earthquake and hailstorm (Revelation 16:18-21; Revelation 6:14-17).
Second coming of Jesus for His saints (Matthew 24:30, 31).
Righteous dead raised to life (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Righteous given immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-55).
Righteous given bodies like Jesus (1 John 3:2; Philippians 3:21).
All righteous caught up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Living wicked slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth (Isaiah 11:4).
Wicked in graves remain dead until the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5).
Jesus takes righteous to heaven (John 13:33, 36; 14:1-3).
Satan bound (Revelation 20:1-3).



9. Revelation 20:4 says there will be a judgment in heaven during the 1,000 years. What for? Who will participate?

"I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them ... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Revelation 20:4. "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? ... Know ye not that we shall judge angels?" 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3.

Answer: The righteous of all ages (and probably even good angels) will participate in the judgment during the 1,000 years. The cases of all who are lost, including the devil and his angels, will be reviewed. This judgment will make details regarding the lost clear to each saved person. In the end, all will see that people are shut out of heaven only if they did not really want to live like Jesus or to be with Him.

During the 1,000 years, all God's righteous people will participate in the judgment in heaven.
REVIEW THE EVENTS
AND CONDITIONS
DURING THE 1,000 YEARS:
Earth in battered condition from huge hailstones and devastating earthquake (Revelation 16:18-21; 6:14-17).
Earth in total blackout/bottomless pit (Jeremiah 4:23, 28).
Satan and his angels forced to stay on the earth/bound (Revelation 20:1-3).
Righteous in heaven participating in the judgment (Revelation 20:4).
Wicked are all dead (Jeremiah 4:25; Isaiah 11:4).

During the 1,000 years, every soul who has ever lived on earth will be in one of two places: (1) on the earth, dead and lost, or (2) in heaven, taking part in the judgment. The Lord invites you to be in heaven. Please accept His invitation.



10. At the close of the 1,000 years the holy city, new Jerusalem, will come down from heaven to this earth. Who will come with it? Where will it settle?


The holy city, along with all God's people, will descend to earth at the close of the 1,000 years.
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. ... And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men." Revelation 21:2, 3. "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh." "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof. ... And the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." "All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem." Zechariah 14:1, 4, 5, 10.

Answer: The new Jerusalem will settle where the mount of Olives now stands. The mountain will be flattened to make a great plain, upon which the city will come to rest. All of the righteous people of all ages (Zechariah 14:5), the angels of heaven (Matthew 25:31), plus God the Father (Revelation 21:2, 3) and God the Son (Matthew 25:31) will return to earth with the holy city for Jesus' special third coming. The second coming will be for His saints; the third will be with His saints.

Jesus' Three Advents:


1. First coming, to Bethlehem in a manger.


2. Second coming, in the clouds at the beginning of the 1,000 years to take His people to heaven.


3. Third coming, with the holy city and all righteous people at the close of the 1,000 years.


11. What will happen to the wicked dead at this time? How will this affect Satan?

"The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations." Revelation 20:5, 7, 8.

Answer: At the close of the 1,000 years (when Jesus comes the third time) the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, will then have an earth full of people (all the nations of the world) to deceive.


12. What will Satan do then?


After the holy city descends, the wicked people of all ages--with Satan as their leader--will attempt to capture the city.
"Satan shall ... go out to deceive the nations ... of the earth, ... to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city." Revelation 20:7-9.

Answer: Satan, true to his nature, will immediately begin lying to the people left on the earth--the wicked from all ages. He will probably claim that the city is really his, that he was unjustly deposed from the heavenly kingdom, that God is power-hungry and ruthless, and that God is getting ready to wipe them all off the face of the earth with a devastating, inescapable fire. He will convince them that, if they unify, God does not have a chance. With the entire world against one city, the victory will appear certain. The nations will then unite and marshal their armies to surround the new Jerusalem.


13. What will interrupt Satan's plan to capture or destroy the city?

"Fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into ... the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 20:9, 10; 21:8. "The wicked ... shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:3.
When the wicked of the ages surround the holy city, God will destroy them with fire that falls from heaven.


Answer: Fire will suddenly come down from heaven (not up from hell, as many believe) upon the wicked and all will be turned into ashes, including the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). This fire that destroys sin and sinners is called the second death. There is no resurrection from this death. It is final. Notice that the devil will not be tending the fire, as is commonly believed. He will be in it, and it will put him out of existence.


14. When the wicked are burned up and the fire goes out, what glorious, thrilling event will take place next?

"Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth." Isaiah 65:17. "Look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. "He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new." Revelation 21:5. "The tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:3.

Answer:
When the fire goes out, God will create a fantastic new earth, with the holy city as its capital, and give it to His people. Please decide now to be there.

God will create new heavens and a new earth, and the new Jerusalem will be the capital city of the earth made new. Sin and its ugliness will be gone forever. God's people will at long last receive the kingdom promised to them. "They shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." Isaiah 35:10. Too fabulous to describe! Too glorious to miss! Too near for us to be unsure! God has a place prepared there for you (John 14:1-3). Plan to live in it. Jesus is waiting for your consent.


REVIEW THE EVENTS AT THE CLOSE OF THE 1,000 YEARS:
1. Third coming of Jesus with His saints (Zechariah 14:5).
2. Holy city settles on mount of Olives, which becomes a great plain (Zechariah 14:4, 10).
3. The Father, angels, and all of the righteous come with Jesus (Revelation 21:1-3; Matthew 25:31; Zechariah 14:5).
4. Wicked dead raised; Satan loosed (Revelation 20:5, 7).
5. Satan deceives entire world (Revelation 20:8).
6. Wicked surround the holy city (Revelation 20:9).
7. Wicked destroyed by fire (Revelation 20:9).
8. New heavens and earth created (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).
9. God's people enjoy eternity with Christ on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).


THE 1,000 YEARS OF REVELATION 20
EVENTS DURING THE 1,000 YEARS
1. Earth torn up, desolate, and dark.
2. All wicked are dead on earth.
3. Satan bound to this earth.
4. Righteous judging in heaven.


FIRST RESURRECTION
_________________________
AT BEGINNING OF THE 1,000 YEARS

1. Devastating earthquake and hailstorm.
2. Second coming of Jesus for the saints.
3. Righteous dead raised to life.
4. Righteous given immortality.
5. Righteous given bodies like that of Jesus.
6. All righteous caught up into clouds.
7. Living wicked slain by the Lord's presence.
8. Wicked already in their graves remain dead.
9. Jesus takes righteous to heaven.
10 Satan bound.



SECOND RESURRECTION
_________________________
AT CLOSE OF THE 1,000 YEARS

1. Third coming of Jesus with the saints.
2. Holy city descends onto the mount of Olives, which becomes a great plain.
3. Father, angels, righteous come with Jesus.
4. Wicked dead raised and Satan loosed.
5. Satan deceives all nations. They surround the holy city.
6. Wicked destroyed by fire.
7. New heavens and earth created.
8. God's people enjoy eternity with Jesus.


15. Can we know how soon Jesus will return for His saints?


"When ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." Matthew 24:33. "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:28. "For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." Romans 9:28. "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them." 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

Answer: Jesus said when the signs of His coming are being fulfilled rapidly, as they are today, we should rejoice and know that His coming is near--even at the doors. And the apostle Paul said we can know the end is near when there is a great movement for peace in the world. Finally, the Bible says God will cut the work short (Romans 9:28). So without doubt, we are living on borrowed time. The Lord will arrive suddenly and unexpectedly--at an hour known to no one, but to God only (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7). Our only safety is to be ready.

 

The Ultimate Deliverance

It's no fairytale - one day, you can be free from all the hurt, hunger, aloneness, crime, and chaos infecting the world today. Doesn't that sound wonderful? But it's not going to be some charismatic earthly leader who's going to deliver you... no, He's much more superior than that! Jesus is coming soon, but there is a lot of popular misconceptions regarding just how He's coming. So take a few minutes to understand what the Bible really says about the second coming so you won't be left behind!



1. Will Jesus return to this earth the second time? Can we be positive?


Jesus taught that He will return to earth the second time.
"Christ ... shall ... appear the second time." Hebrews 9:28. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again." John 14:3.

Answer: Yes! In Matthew 26:64, Jesus testified under oath that He would come back to this earth again. Since the Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), this is proof positive. Believe it just as it reads. It is Christ's own personal guarantee.


2. In what manner will Jesus return the second time?


Jesus said He will return to earth in the clouds.
"While they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11.

Answer: The Scriptures promise that Jesus will return to this earth in the same manner that He left at His ascension--in a visible, literal, bodily, personal manner. Matthew 24:30 says, "They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." He will come in the clouds literally, as a personal being with a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:36-43, 50, 51), and His coming will be visible. Scripture is clear on these facts.


3. Will the second coming of Christ be visible to all men or only to a select group?


Every person living on earth will see Jesus when He returns the second time.
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." Revelation 1:7. "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:27.

Answer: Every man, woman, and child living in the world when Jesus returns will see Him at His second coming. The staggering threefold (Luke 9:26) brightness of His coming will stretch from horizon to horizon, and the atmosphere will be charged with brilliant glory like lightning. No one will be able to hide. Every living soul will be forced to face Christ. Christ left no loophole for doubt or misunderstanding.

Note: The secret rapture so commonly believed and taught today is not in the Bible. It is a human invention. Nor is the second coming a spiritual coming into the heart at conversion. It does not take place at a man's death, nor is it figurative--to be manifested by better world conditions. These theories are all of human origin. The second coming will be a literal, worldwide, visible, personal appearance of Christ in the clouds to bring this world to an end and to reward or punish all men and women.


4. Who will come with Jesus at His second coming, and why?


All the angels of heaven will be with Jesus at His second coming.
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory." Matthew 25:31.

Answer: All the angels of heaven will come with Jesus at His second coming. As the cloud nears the earth, Jesus will send His angels, and they will quickly gather together all of the righteous people in preparation for the trip back to heaven (Matthew 24:31).


5. What is the purpose of Jesus' second coming to this earth?


Jesus will take His people to heaven and restore to them everything Adam and Eve lost.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." John 14:3. "And he shall send Jesus Christ ... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things." Acts 3:20, 21.

Answer: Jesus is coming back to this earth to reward His people as He promised and to take them to the beautiful home He has prepared for them. He will restore to His people all of the joys and glories of Eden that Adam and Eve lost by sinning. His second coming will bring an end to this present age of evil.


6. What will happen to the righteous people when Jesus comes the second time?


Little babies taken from their parents by death will be returned to them at Jesus' second coming.
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ... and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. "We shall all be changed, ... and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. For ... this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. "We look for ... the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body." Philippians 3:20, 21.

Answer: The righteous dead will be raised from their graves, given perfect, immortal bodies like that of Christ, and caught up into the clouds to meet the Lord. Then the righteous living will also be given bodies like Christ and will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. And Jesus will take the righteous to heaven with Him. Note that Jesus does not touch the earth at His second coming. The saints meet Him "in the air." So God's people will ignore any report that Christ is in Baltimore, New Orleans, Los Angeles, etc. False christs will appear and do miracles on the earth (Matthew 24:23-27), but Jesus will remain in the clouds above the earth at His second coming.


7. What will happen to the wicked people when Jesus comes again?


The wicked will be slain at Jesus' second coming.
"With the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." Isaiah 11:4. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth." Jeremiah 25:33.

Answer: The wicked will be slain by Jesus.


8. How will Christ's second coming affect the earth itself?


Today's earthquakes are minor in comparison with the massive earthquake at Jesus' coming.
"And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found." Revelation 16:18, 20. "I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord." Jeremiah 4:26. "The Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste." "The land shall be utterly emptied." Isaiah 24:1, 3.

Answer: The earth will be seized by a great earthquake at the coming of the Lord. This earthquake will be of such a devastating nature that it will leave the world in a state of total destruction.


9. Does the Bible give specific information regarding the nearness of Christ's second coming?


Millions of Christians died during the Dark Ages. Many were burned at the stake.


Answer: Yes, it does! And Jesus Himself said, "When ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." Matthew?24:33. The Lord placed signs all along the way from His ascension to His second coming. They are listed below. Study them carefully.

A. The Destruction of Jerusalem
Prophecy: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:2, 16.
Fulfillment: Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Roman warrior Titus.

B. A Great Persecution, or Tribulation
Prophecy: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world." Matthew 24:21.
Fulfillment: This prophecy points primarily to the long period of tribulation that took place during the Dark Ages and was instigated by the apostate church. It lasted more than 1,000 years. Over 50 million Christians were slain for their faith in this terrible tribulation period. One writer says the apostate church "has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind." W.E.H. Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, (Reprint; New York: Braziller, 1955) Vol. 2, pp. 40-45.

C. The Sun Turned into Darkness
Prophecy: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: This was fulfilled by a day of supernatural darkness on May 19, 1780. It was not an eclipse. Timothy Dwight says, "The 19th of May, 1780, was a remarkable dark day. Candles were lighted in many houses; the birds were silent and disappeared, and the fowls retired to roost. ... A very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand." Quoted in Connecticut Historical Collections, compiled by John Warner Barber (2nd ed.; New Haven: Durrie & Peck and J.W. Barber, 1836) p. 403.

D. The Moon Turned into Blood
Prophecy: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come." Joel 2:31.
Fulfillment: The moon became as red as blood on the night of the "dark day," May 19, 1780. Milo Bostick in Stone's History of Massachusetts says, "The moon which was at its full, had the appearance of blood."


The great star shower took place on November 13, 1833.
E. The Stars Fall from Heaven
Prophecy: "And the stars shall fall from heaven." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: The great star shower took place on the night of November 13, 1833. It was so bright that a newspaper could be read on the street. One writer says, "For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze."* Men thought the end of the world had come. Look into this. It is most fascinating, and a sign of Christ's coming.
*Peter A. Millman, "The Falling of the Stars," The Telescope, 7 (May-June, 1940) 57.

F. Jesus Comes in the Clouds
Prophecy: "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24:30.
Fulfillment: This is the next great event. Are you ready?



10. How may we know when we have reached the very last days of earth's history? Does the Bible clearly describe the world and its people in the last generation?


Strife between capital and labor is a sign of Jesus' second coming.


Answer: Yes, indeed it does. Look at the following specific signs of the last days. You will be amazed. And these are just a few of many, many positive signs that show we are in the closing days of earth's history.
A. Capital-labor troubles
"The hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord." "Be ... patient; ... for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." James 5:4, 8.
Trouble between capital and labor is predicted for the last days. For fulfillment, consult your newspaper.

B. Wars and commotions
"But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass." Luke 21:9.
Wars and the ravages of civil distress are affecting thousands worldwide. Only Jesus' soon coming will bring an end to the pain and destruction of war.

Fear and dread of the future are signs of Jesus' return.
C. Unrest, fear, and upheaval
"And there shall be ... upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; ... Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth." Luke 21:25, 26.
This sounds strangely like an editorial from a current newspaper--a perfect picture of the world today--and there is a reason: We are the people of the very last days of earth's history. The tense atmosphere present in the world today should not surprise us. Christ foretold it. It should convince us that His coming is near.

D. Increase of knowledge
"Even to the time of the end ... knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4.
The Information Age makes this one all too obvious. Even the most skeptical mind must admit that this sign is fulfilled. Knowledge is exploding in all directions. It is said that 80?percent of the world's total knowledge has been brought forth in the last decade and that 90?percent of all the scientists who have ever lived are alive today.

E. Scoffers and religious skeptics who turn away from Bible truth
"There shall come in the last days scoffers." 2 Peter 3:3. "They will not endure sound doctrine; ... And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3, 4.
It is not difficult to find scoffers today in fulfillment of this prophecy. Even religious leaders are denying the plain Bible teachings of Creation, the Flood, the divinity of Christ, the second coming of Christ, and many other vital Bible truths. Psychiatry and the traditions of pseudo-intellectuals have replaced the Bible in many religious circles. Secular educators teach our youth to scoff at the Bible record of these great truths and substitute evolution and other man-made, false teachings for the plain, simple facts of God's Holy Word. A recent poll discovered that only two percent of American student ministers believe in the literal second coming of Christ.

An epidemic of pornography, crime, illegal drugs, and moral degeneracy is threatening to overwhelm us.
F. Moral degeneracy--decline of spirituality
"In the last days ... men shall be lovers of their own selves, ... Without natural affection, ... incontinent, ... despisers of those that are good, ... Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
America is in the midst of a tremendous crisis. People from all walks of life are saying so. Suicide is becoming a popular solution to human problems. Divorce rates are climbing wildly, with nearly one marriage in two ending in the divorce court. The current immoral generation--with its obsession with sex and filth, with its increasing church membership but decreasing true spirituality--is plain and positive fulfillment of God's Word. For a real shock, see how many of the last-day sins listed in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 you can find depicted in any issue of your Sunday newspaper. Nothing short of the coming of the Lord will stem the tide of evil that is now engulfing the world.

"In the last days men shall be lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God." 2 Timothy 3:1-4.
G. Craze for pleasure
"In the last days ... men shall be ... lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God." 2 Timothy 3:1-4.
The world has gone crazy for pleasure. Only a small percentage of the citizens of our large cities attend church services regularly, but they jam pleasure resorts by the thousands. America is spending billions each year for pleasure and only "peanuts" (in comparison) for God. Pleasure-mad Americans waste billions of hours in front of the TV set in direct fulfillment of 2 Timothy 3:4.

H. Increasing lawlessness, bloody crimes, and violence
"Iniquity shall abound." Matthew 24:12. "Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse." 2 Timothy 3:13. "The land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence." Ezekiel 7:23.
It is all too obvious that this sign is fulfilled. Crime and lawlessness are increasing with shocking rapidity. Most people in large cities do not answer their doorbells after dark. The wisest statesmen of our time are concerned for the survival of civilization because crime sweeps forward seemingly beyond control.

I. Destructive earthquakes, storms, and famines
"And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences." Luke 21:11.
Earthquakes, tornadoes, floods, etc. are increasing at an unprecedented rate. One-third of the people of the world are hungry, and thousands die daily of starvation. All these things are further proof that we live in earth's last hours.

J. A special message to the world in the very last days
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14.
The great, solemn, last warning message of Christ's second coming is now being presented in more than 900 languages and dialects. Nearly 95 percent of the world's population has access to this message. Before Jesus' second coming, every person in the world will be warned of His soon return. People will be lost only if they reject the warning message.

Reliance on psychics, channelers, and spiritualists is evidence that we are living in the last days.
K. A turning to spiritism
"In the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits." 1 Timothy 4:1. "They are the spirits of devils." Revelation 16:14.
People today, including a vast number of the heads of nations, seek counsel from psychics, channelers, and spiritualists. Spiritism has invaded the churches, as well, with the false teaching of the immortality of the soul. The Bible teaches that the dead are dead.



11. Just how near is the Lord's second coming?


We are living in the final moments of time.
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matthew 24:32-34.

Answer: The Bible is very specific and plain on this point. The signs have almost all been fulfilled. We cannot know the exact day and hour of Christ's return (Matthew 24:36), but we can be confident that we are the people who will live to see Jesus return. God has promised to finish things very quickly now and cut the work short (Romans 9:28). Christ is coming back to this earth for His people very soon. Are you ready?


12. Satan is telling many falsehoods regarding the second coming of Christ and, with lying wonders and miracles, will deceive millions. How can I be certain I will not be deceived?


"They are the spirits of devils, working miracles." Revelation 16:14. "And shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.
What appears to be Jesus in a seance chamber is one of Satan's impersonating demons.


Answer:
Satan has invented many false teachings about the second coming and is deceiving millions into believing that Christ has already come or that He will come in some non-biblical manner. But Christ has warned us of Satan's strategy, saying, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Matthew 24:4. He then exposes Satan's plans and falsehoods so we will be forewarned, and He reminds us, "Behold, I have told you before." Matthew 24:25. For example, Jesus stated specifically that He will not appear in the desert or come to the seance chambers (verse 26). There is no reason to be deceived if we learn what God's book teaches about Christ's second coming. The acid test is this: What does the Bible teach about it? People who know what the Bible says about the second coming will not be led astray by Satan. All others will be deceived.


13. How can I be certain to be ready when Jesus comes back?


We must not become so busy that we have not time for Christ.
"Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. "As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God." John 1:12. "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts." Hebrews 8:10. "Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57.

Answer: Jesus says, "Behold, I stand at the door [this door represents the human mind or heart], and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in." Revelation 3:20. Through the Holy Spirit and my conscience, Jesus knocks and asks to come into my heart so that He can change my life. If I unreservedly turn my life over to Him, He will erase all my sins of the past (Romans 3:25) and give me the power to live a godly life (John 1:12). As a free gift, He bestows upon me His own righteous character so I can stand unafraid before a holy God when my life is changed by Jesus. Then doing His will becomes a pleasure. It is so simple that many doubt its reality. But it's true. My part is simply to give my life to Christ and let Him live within me. His part is to work the mighty miracle within me that changes my life and prepares me for His second coming. It is a free gift. I need only to accept it.


14. Of what great danger does Christ solemnly warn?


"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matthew 24:44. "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares." Luke 21:34. "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:37.

Answer: There is great danger in becoming so busy with the cares of this life or so entranced by the pleasures of sin that the coming of the Lord may slip up on us as the Flood did on the world in Noah's day, and we will be surprised, unprepared, and lost. This will be the experience of millions. How is it with you? Jesus is coming back very, very soon--in our present day. Are you ready? Nothing else matters.


15. I am planning to be ready when Jesus returns.



Answer:
Yes
No


Thought Questions
1. Isn't the great tribulation yet to come?
Matthew 24:21

It is true that a terrible tribulation will cover the earth just before Jesus returns to deliver His people. Daniel describes it as "a time of trouble, such as never was." Daniel 12:1. In context, though, the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21 refers to the awful persecution of God's people during the Dark Ages. Millions were slain for their faith at that time.


2. Since the Lord is coming "as a thief in the night," how can anyone know anything about it?
1 Thessalonians 5:4

The answer is found in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4: "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." Notice, the day of the Lord comes as a thief to the unprepared, but not to those who are called "brethren."


3. When will Christ set up His kingdom upon the earth?
Revelation 21:2

After the great 1,000-year period of Revelation 20. The 1,000-year period begins at the second coming of Christ, when Jesus takes the righteous from this earth to heaven to live and reign with Him "a thousand years." Revelation 20:4. At the close of the 1,000 years "the holy city, new Jerusalem" (Revelation 21:2) comes down from heaven to the earth with all the saints (Zechariah 14:1, 4, 5) and the wicked dead of all ages are raised to life (Revelation 20:5). They surround the holy city to capture it (Revelation 20:9), and fire comes down from God out of heaven and devours them. This fire purifies the earth and burns up all traces of sin and sinners (2 Peter 3:10). Finally the fire goes out (Isaiah 47:14), leaving only ashes (Malachi 4:3). Then God creates a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17; Revelation 21:1) and gives it to the righteous, and "God ... will dwell with them, ... and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:3. Perfect, holy, happy beings, restored once again to the perfect image of God, will at last be at home in a sinless, spotless world as God originally planned. Only the most foolish person would choose to miss this.


4. Why don't we hear more preaching and teaching today regarding Christ's second coming?
Titus 2:13

The devil is responsible. He well knows that the second coming is the "blessed hope" (Titus 2:13) of the Christian, and that once understood, it changes the lives of men and women and leads them to take a personal, diligent, active part in spreading that good news to others so that Christ's coming may be hastened. This infuriates Satan, so he influences those who have "a form of godliness" (2 Timothy 3:5) but deny "the power thereof" to scoff, saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning." 2 Peter 3:3, 4. Those who deny, ignore, or make light of Christ's second advent (as a literal, soon-coming event) are specifically fulfilling Bible prophecy--and doing the devil a very great service.


5. But wasn't Jesus speaking of the secret rapture when He said in Luke 17:36, "One shall be taken, and the other left"?
Luke 17:36

No. There is not the slightest indication that the event is secret. Jesus was describing Noah's flood and the destruction of Sodom. (See Luke 17:26-37.) He told how God spared Noah and Lot and destroyed the wicked. He says specifically that the flood and fire "destroyed them all." Verses 27, 29. Plainly, in each case, a few were taken to safety and the rest were destroyed. Then He added, "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." Verse 30. To illustrate, Jesus continued, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left." Verse 36. There is nothing secret about it. "Every eye shall see Him." Revelation 1:7. At His second coming, Christ publicly and openly takes the righteous up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17) and slays the wicked (Isaiah 11:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:8). That's why Luke 17:37 speaks of the bodies of the wicked and mentions the eagles (or vultures) gathered around them. (See also Revelation 19:17, 18.) The wicked who are left behind at Christ's coming are left dead. (For more information on the secret rapture, write for our book on the subject.)

 

You are dividing the Father from the Son as if each has something that DOES NOT belong to the other.

Christ said that ALL that the Father has ARE MINE and that all that was HIS belonged to the Father.

Your view insists that some saints are Christs and others are not. That is a two-gospel system and in fact a two-god system.

There is only ONE Gospel - as Paul points out in Romans 2 - the work of the Holy Spirit in the circumcision of the heart - was THE issue FROM the very start!

The idea that the saints in tribulation are "NOT CHRISTS" is foreign to scripture "I WILL NEVER leave you or forsake you - I AM WITH YOU always EVEN to the END OF THE WORLD".

Christ said "I go to MY God and YOUR GOD" - And Christ taught the saints to pray DIRECTLY TO GOD the FATHER! How then do you say the saints do not belong to God the Father?

Where do those ideas come from?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Lets see now - "how many Bible texts" did I reference in that last post - and so "how many" did you simply "Dump" as "not worth" your time??

How is it - that when confronted with devastating Bible texts against one's treasured traditions the response is "predictably" good-bye to the offending Bible texts and "hello" to tradition?

I mean - it is soooo predictable.

In Christ,

Bob

 

That is pure nonsense and is the most grevious error in dispensationalism.

 

What a waste of band width, out of all that mess you only have one verse on the Rapture.</font>[/QUOTE]

So "OldRegular" is not "pre-trib"??

Post Trib??

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Post trib, amillennial. I hope I haven't posted anything that would lead anyone to think I am pre trib.

 

prophecynut

Since this is question and answer time:

1. Who is the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:7?

2. Who is the Son of man in Daniel 7:13?

3. How long did His Kingdom last in Daniel 7:14?