2 Tim 2:15

[Jerome]

It was already discussed that the Spanish Bible does not use merely "be diligent", but "procure with diligence".

Diccionario
To study, ... v. n. Estudiar; trabajar; aplicarse; procurar; reflexionar.

 

[4His_glory]

It was already discussed that the Spanish Bible does not use merely "be diligent", but "procure with diligence".

Diccionario
To study, ... v. n. Estudiar; trabajar; aplicarse; procurar; reflexionar.

Procura con diligencia does is not the equivalent as study. Procurar means according to the official Spanish language dictionary El Diccionario Esencial de la Lengua Español:

Hacer diligencias o esfuerzos para que suceda algo.

For those that can not read Spanish that means to accomplish something with diligence or strength.

So my question still stands. And I await an answer. Is my RVR wrong for saying basically what the modern versions say?

I could go on to say that if Reina wanted to use the word for study he could have (estudiar).

 

[robycop3]

I thought we'd agreed that in 1611 "study" meant "strive" or "work diligently" if used in that context. But then thecontext in Timothy isn't as clear as it is in Thessalonians, I. E. "STUDY to be quiet".

Even though I don't read Spanish, I'd say the RVR reading is quite correct, given the definition of "spoudazo". The AV men simply used "study" according to one of its definitions in THEIR day, a definition not used NOW.

 

[Salamander]

Does it?

How does the KJV usually translate the same Greek word?

Could it possibly be that God has His word to remain unusual to the natural man? Yes.

It's not solely the "Greek word", it's the use of that Greek word in context and the tense of that verb.:godisgood:

 

[Salamander]

They will have to 'study' on it !

OK, we'll continue to study on it, yall just keep being diligent!:laugh:

 

[Salamander]

No, NO, Sal...the AV men, living 400 years ago, were using 'study' in the vernacular of 400 years ago, when it also meant 'work diligently'. WE no longer use 'study' in that sense.

1 Thessalonians 4:11, KJV
"And that ye study to be quiet,...."

Are we to 'examine' being quiet 'with the purpose of learning', or are we to 'strive' to be quiet? The Greek word here is "philotimeomai"; you may check out its english definition for yourself.

For a modern Bible to use 'study' in 2 Tim. 2;15 is incorrect. To apply the 17th century meaning of 'study' TODAY as it's used in the KJV in 2 Timothy or 1 Thessalonians in the KJV is incorrect.

Again, your modern thinking still confuses you.

Study requires diligence, but diligence doesn't require study.

You've misrepresented the use of the word, again.

 

[Salamander]

No, as quoted they define study as "to endeavour diligently", not just "be diligent".
Your citations bolster the OP's suspicion that the NKJV's be diligent seems to be missing something:

Johnson's Dictionary: study = to endeavour diligently
Webster's Dictionary: study = to endeavour diligently
Spanish 2 Tim. 2:15 procure with diligence


The KJV's study meant more than merely "being diligent".

And still does and will always.

 

[Salamander]

Romans 12:8 ... he that ruleth , with diligence .

Proverbs 12:24 : The hand of the diligent shall bear rule ...

Proverbs 12:27 : ... but the substance of a diligent man is precious .

Proverbs 13:4 ... but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat .

Proverbs 21:5 : The thoughts of the diligent tend only to plenteousness ...

I wonder which is more easily understood by today's reader: study, or diligence!:laugh:

 

[Salamander]

--------
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) STUDY: 1.application of the mind to the acquisition of knowledge, as by reading, investigation, or reflection:


(under synonyms)
Study implies an attempt to obtain a grasp of something by methodical or exhaustive thought: to study a problem.
---------

The specific English word meaning "to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence", in the context of thought, is study.

There is no obsolete or ancient meaning used in the definition of "study" as used in this verse. It is ordinary current usage. The KJV translation of this verse is perfectly correct and good ordinary modern English.

Yep, you must be tuned into the right wavelength.

 

[Salamander]

I would like Askjo or SFCI to address my question to them in post 51.

They claim study is the best word to use since the KJV uses it. But my Reina Valera has the Spanish word for diligence and was translated originally before the KJV. So Is the RVR wrong? You guys are saying that the modern translations change the verse, but here is a translation in another language, older than the KJV, with which the modern versions agree.

Are you trying to say that study doesn't require diligence???

 

[Salamander]

Certainly the vast majority of 'truth' in Timothy's possession was from Paul's verbal teaching. It makes little sense that Timothy was being instructed here to exert himself, endeavor, and give diligence of thought to past spoken doctrinal conversations they had between themselves. I find it less likely that Timothy is supposed to attempt to obtain a grasp of spoken instruction by methodical or exhaustive thought than the object of his 'diligence' was to be the proper execution of his office (doing all the Lord's work). God's 'approval' will be the reward of his efforts.

I believe you've left some one very special to Timothy out of his being instructed.

Therefore, "study" (in our contemporary sense) is logically not the intended meaning.

OK, there it is, the REAL problem; it's called "contemporary sense".

So you think that Paul instructed Timothy to be diligent without first study of the things he was to be diligent in?:laugh:

The more convolutions I read the more my stomach hurts from the laughter!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Salamander]

Procura con diligencia does is not the equivalent as study. Procurar means according to the official Spanish language dictionary El Diccionario Esencial de la Lengua Español:



For those that can not read Spanish that means to accomplish something with diligence or strength.

So my question still stands. And I await an answer. Is my RVR wrong for saying basically what the modern versions say?

I could go on to say that if Reina wanted to use the word for study he could have (estudiar).

OK, from a Spanish standpoint, tell us how one goes about procuring something without first studying the approach, theorizing a concept to extract, then using precautionary measures, ( learned precautions from previous studies)?

 

[4His_glory]

Are you trying to say that study doesn't require diligence???

Why not answer the question? Is the RVR wrong in your opinion since it does not translate the word as study?

 

[Salamander]

I thought we'd agreed that in 1611 "study" meant "strive" or "work diligently" if used in that context. But then thecontext in Timothy isn't as clear as it is in Thessalonians, I. E. "STUDY to be quiet".

Even though I don't read Spanish, I'd say the RVR reading is quite correct, given the definition of "spoudazo". The AV men simply used "study" according to one of its definitions in THEIR day, a definition not used NOW.

In the area of studying to be quiet, it requires the diligence incorporating past experience,(using a concept most commonly known as "study") to know when to answer and when to keep one's mouth shut.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Salamander]

Why not answer the question? Is the RVR wrong in your opinion since it does not translate the word as study?

I cannot say it was "wrong", but that what you offered shows the Spanish to reveal diligence requires study.

You have no point, but a preconceived notion.

 

[franklinmonroe]

... So you think that Paul instructed Timothy to be diligent without first study of the things he was to be diligent in?...

No; I think you have misunderstood my post if you ask that question. Timothy was admonished to "study" (in the sense of 'be diligent') all the things that Paul verbally taught him about doctrine and the office of pastor, which was predominately through Paul's verbal instruction. Paul's spoken theological instruction and explanation of pastorial duties were the foremost things in which Timothy needed to be diligent. You are implying that Timothy should first study (in the sense of reading, reflecting, or reseaching) the scriptures. But Timothy would have had precious little Christian writings at that time to study.

 

[Askjo]

I would like Askjo or SFCI to address my question to them in post 51.

They claim study is the best word to use since the KJV uses it. But my Reina Valera has the Spanish word for diligence and was translated originally before the KJV. So Is the RVR wrong? You guys are saying that the modern translations change the verse, but here is a translation in another language, older than the KJV, with which the modern versions agree.

The Spainish Bible, RVG said, "Estudia con diligencia para presentarte a Dios aprobado..."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Spainish Bible, RVG said, "Estudia con diligencia para presentarte a Dios aprobado..."

Interesting... Study is in the RVG.

 

[Logos1560]

The Spainish Bible, RVG said, "Estudia con diligencia para presentarte a Dios aprobado..."

Which edition of the Spanish Bible do you have?


The 1602 Spanish Valera had the following at 2 Timothy 2:15

"Procura con diligencia prefentarte a Dios approvodo ..."

A present-day edition of the Spanish Bible printed in Texas has the following at 2 Timothy 2:15

"Procura con diligencia presentarte a Dios aprobado ..."

A present-day edition of the Spanish Bible that reprints with permission the edition printed by the Trinitarian Bible Society of England has the following at 2 Timothy 2:15

"Procura con diligencia presentarte a Dios aprobado ..."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Which edition of the Spanish Bible do you have?

Dr. Humberto Gomez Sr, a Bible-believing native Mexican, who has served as a Missionary to his own people for over 30 years, devoted 8 years of his life to revising the Spanish Bible, which eventually became known as the Reina Valera Gomez Bible (hereafter RVG). The RVG is a Spanish Bible of which all traces of the corrupt Alexandrian Texts have been removed. It is in total conformity to the Received Texts. And consequently it reads parallel with the KJV. But to Calvin George, this is not a good thing. To him, it’s a bad thing.
However, despite Calvin George’s disapproval of the RVG, worldwide support for this Spanish Bible is growing on a daily basis. - From www.biblefortoday.org