2ed of 2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

[Me4Him]

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (Jews/Israel) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Ro 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


Can you "NAME" one "GENTILE" who is "UNSAVED", yet is still referred to as "ELECT", by God???

 

[Eliyahu]

My comments :
1) 70th week has not started yet.
2) Rev 11: 2 witnesses, 2 olive trees, 2 candles are to be interprestted according to Zechariah 4, which means the whole true believers in the world. They may be key people among the believers.
3) They will be caught up and the remnant believers will glorify God looking at the rapture. (Rev 11)
4) Rev 12 mentions the man-child who will rule the world, born by a woman : That is Jesus Christ, which disproves that Revelation after ch 4 is story about what will occur after the rapture. The woman is not Mary, but Holy Spirit-Church. Jesus was born by Holy Spirit before He was born out of Mary (Mt 1:20) 1260 days mean the X-days during which the Gospel could be preached in the wilderness (world).
5) Woman suffers 3 and a half days, then disappear because she will be raptured, then the remnant will keep the faith and will pass thru the remaining 3 1/2 days (3 1/2 years)
6) Finally the remnant will meet Jesus on white horse.
7) Ch 6: 4 men on the horses: among them, the one on the white horse is Jesus: He conquered at the Cross, and continues to conquer for 2000 years after he was crowned.

8) what will happen to Israel will happen as per Ezkiel prophesied. What will happen to Church will take place as per Rev and Gospel, and Thes.

9) Hundreds of millions will come out of tribulation washed by the blood of Lamb of God. If Pre-rapture is true, Holy Spirit will have to be taken up and then He has to re-inaugurate as happened in Act 2.

I have the opinion totally different from Plymouth Brethren even though I have attended there long time.

 

[Eliyahu]

There will be a big change in the world politics, especially on this continent. If USA still exists, Russia and EU cannot invade Israel as per Ezkiel 37-39. By that time USA will have disappeared. Will the world politics allow USA to retire peacefully ? No big country in the world history has disappeared quietly.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
There will be a big change in the world politics, especially on this continent. If USA still exists, Russia and EU cannot invade Israel as per Ezkiel 37-39. By that time USA will have disappeared. Will the world politics allow USA to retire peacefully ? No big country in the world history has disappeared quietly.

America was founded as a "CHRISTIAN NATION", and once they are "GONE" (rapture) America will no longer be "America".

Israel was Israel only as long as the JEWS occupied the country, when they were "GONE" so was "Israel".

The "LAND" and "PEOPLE" were still there, but not the "NATION".

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
My comments :
1) 70th week has not started yet.

Agreed.

2) Rev 11: 2 witnesses, 2 olive trees, 2 candles are to be interprestted according to Zechariah 4, which means the whole true believers in the world. They may be key people among the believers.
3) They will be caught up and the remnant believers will glorify God looking at the rapture. (Rev 11)

Two witnesse, Moses/Elijah.

4) Rev 12 mentions the man-child who will rule the world, born by a woman : That is Jesus Christ, which disproves that Revelation after ch 4 is story about what will occur after the rapture. The woman is not Mary, but Holy Spirit-Church. Jesus was born by Holy Spirit before He was born out of Mary (Mt 1:20)

Jesus had to be born of a woman (flesh) under the law, God can't be tempted with sin, Jesus was, to have "Victory" over sin, one must have a "confrontation with sin", (tempted by sin).

1260 days mean the X-days during which the Gospel could be preached in the wilderness (world).
5) Woman suffers 3 and a half days, then disappear because she will be raptured, then the remnant will keep the faith and will pass thru the remaining 3 1/2 days (3 1/2 years)

The "first half" (3 1/2) of the trib is "peaceable", the last half is "GREAT TRIB", when the "woman" flee into the mountains.

6) Finally the remnant will meet Jesus on white horse.
7) Ch 6: 4 men on the horses: among them, the one on the white horse is Jesus: He conquered at the Cross, and continues to conquer for 2000 years after he was crowned.

This White horse is rode by the AC, who "appears" to be the "messiah".

9) Hundreds of millions will come out of tribulation washed by the blood of Lamb of God. If Pre-rapture is true, Holy Spirit will have to be taken up and then He has to re-inaugurate as happened in Act 2.

The "HOLY GHOST" wasn't present in the OT, and neither will it be present during the trib, God uses the "HOLY SPIRIT" to lead Israel, don't forget the "TRINITY", it explains much.

I have the opinion totally different from Plymouth Brethren even though I have attended there long time.

I'm not familar with their "belief".

 

[Eliyahu]

Me4Him, thanks.
1) the first 3 1/2 trib will be milder than the latter, I agree.

2) Bible explains bible itself: Read Zechariah 4 carefully, then find it matches Rev 11.


Zec 4:14 Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (on the whole earth)

In other words, they are not specific persons but the whole Christians as 2 witnesses'testimony is enough:
Jhn 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

3) The woman cannot be Mary because Mary is sleeping after death now, while the Woman was exiled into wilderness until the end of this world, which means 2000 years. The period was unknown and therefore could be described as x-years but here described as 1260 days which is equivalent to days of Jesus ministry.

4) Holy Spirit worked from the beginning of the world as we see in Gen 1:2 (Spirit of God, Ruach) and hundred times in OT. Don't forget Trinity it explains much. Jesus worked very much during OT times. This need a length explanation but Malack in Hebrew is differnt from Elohim(angels) The Malack(Angel) claimed "I am God of Beth-El) as in Gen 31:13: How can angel call himself is God? Jesus explained this to Disciples from Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim about himself.

5) Famous Plymouth Brethren are :
George Mueller, JN Darby, Hudson Taylor, Harry Ironside, Erich Sauer, CH McIntosh, Robert Chapman, Joseph Scrivener( song writer for What a friend have we in Jesus!), Watchman Nee received from this group, David Livingstone who preached in Africa. They deny to name any denomination as per 1 Cor 1, celebrate Lord Supper every week, Discerning the salvation before accepting anyone, Women head-covering (1Cor 11), No pastor but elders as 1 Tim, In order to be a member, one must testify his or her own salvation, they have no head quarter believing that HQ is in heaven. God blessed many of them. Brethren came as they call each other Brothers and Sisters only, No reverend, pastor etc which are not shown in the Bible as Jesus said "all ye are brethren"

 

[Ed Edwards]

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