2Tim 3:1 Having a 'Form of Godliness'

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

HP: Of the truth we certainly live in perilous times. Here is a passage that speaks of such a time as this. I find this most interesting passage. It seems 'in a sense' even self contradictory. Godliness and being lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God aren't absolute antipodes with each other, and so are the other issues mentioned. How could it be that some would have a "form of godliness" yet obviously living in open sin?

My question to the list is how can this be? What is Scripture speaking of by "having a form of godliness?"

 

[Scarlett O.]

My question to the list is how can this be? What is Scripture speaking of by "having a form of godliness?"

"Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof"?

Well, it could be like a beloved pastor who appears to be a most spiritual man and has a large flock and devoted attendees who also looks at porn on his internet at night. What was the preacher's name a few months ago who when the police came to question him about his suspected involvement with internet child porn locked himself in his office and blew his brains out?

The church members and his own family said that they were shocked.

That's having a "form" of godliness, but denying the "power" thereof.

David Guzik says that "denying the power" means that you ignore the power of the godliness to lead you into righteousness.

Many, many people lead "spiritual" lives - convincing themselves and others that they are saved (and maybe some of them are). Yet these same people are enslaved to such evil and do not acknowledge the "power of godliness" to transform their lives.

Paul tells Timothy (and us) to get as far away from people like that as we can.

It's like a brand new shiny car being hauled by an 18-wheeler to a car lot. It looks wonderful and people might say "WOW!! Isn't that something!", but what they don't know is that there is no engine inside. All that car can do is to look good. It will never serves the purpose that its creator intended it to.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Excellent points!:thumbsup: Certainly the examples you give are indeed valid.

What about the man who testifies to sinning everyday in thought word and deed,....... or those that claim that no amount or kind of sin in their life has any connection to their final standing before God...... or preach that one can sin as a believer at will, and nothing will separate them from Christ? Thoughts?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Scarlett, how can anyone strive for righteousness and a pure heart and life if they believe and preach that it is impossible to reach in this life? I say it is absolutely impossible to strive for something one considers an impossibility. For instance, if I commanded you to jump over the moon, how long would you try jumping to accomplish such a feat?

Is not our first obligation to come to the realization that God is no taskmaster, and that if He commands us to do something, it is well within our power to accomplish it, especially in light of the promises from God of power to accomplish such in our lives?

 

[The Biblicist]

Scarlett, how can anyone strive for righteousness and a pure heart and life if they believe and preach that it is impossible to reach in this life? I say it is absolutely impossible to strive for something one considers an impossibility. For instance, if I commanded you to jump over the moon, how long would you try jumping to accomplish such a feat?

Is not our first obligation to come to the realization that God is no taskmaster, and that if He commands us to do something, it is well within our power to accomplish it, especially in light of the promises from God of power to accomplish such in our lives?

Your complete ignorance of this topic is astounding. Read the following and let Paul provide you with your so-called impossibility made possible:

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of


QUESTIONS:

1. What had Paul denied he attained? ANSWER: "already perfect"

2. Nevertheless did he persue it? ANSWER: "I follow after"

3. Did he STOP persuing "perfection" simply because he did not count himself as apprehending it? ANSWER: "reaching forth...I press toward the mark..."

4. Did his FAILURE in the past stop this pursuit? ANSWER: "forgeting those things which are behind"


MORE QUESTIONS:

1. What goal is worthy to pursue other than perfection?

2. Do artists ever stop trying to pursue the perfect painting?

3. Do athletes ever stop trying to PERFECT their skills


The Christian lives between the tension of indwelling sin and delight after the inward man in God's perfect law of liberty and nothing less than striving for sinlessness satisfies the inward new man.

Moreover, it is this striving for perfection that is part of GROWTH which without there would be no spiritual growth.

Now, the only ones who believe they can acheive sinless perfection are either unmarried and without children or never ask their spouse to be honest with them - they are a joke at best and deceived at minimum.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your complete ignorance of this topic is astounding. Read the following and let Paul provide you with your so-called impossibility made possible:

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of


QUESTIONS:

1. What had Paul denied he attained? ANSWER: "already perfect"

2. Nevertheless did he persue it? ANSWER: "I follow after"

3. Did he STOP persuing "perfection" simply because he did not count himself as apprehending it? ANSWER: "reaching forth...I press toward the mark..."

4. Did his FAILURE in the past stop this pursuit? ANSWER: "forgeting those things which are behind"


MORE QUESTIONS:

1. What goal is worthy to pursue other than perfection?

2. Do artists ever stop trying to pursue the perfect painting?

3. Do athletes ever stop trying to PERFECT their skills


The Christian lives between the tension of indwelling sin and delight after the inward man in God's perfect law of liberty and nothing less than striving for sinlessness satisfies the inward new man.

Moreover, it is this striving for perfection that is part of GROWTH which without there would be no spiritual growth.

Now, the only ones who believe they can acheive sinless perfection are either unmarried and without children or never ask their spouse to be honest with them - they are a joke at best and deceived at minimum.

:thumbs::applause::applause::thumbs:

 

[billwald]

John Calvin taught that the Christian religion is the middle way between error and excess.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your complete ignorance of this topic is astounding. Read the following and let Paul provide you with your so-called impossibility made possible:

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of


QUESTIONS:

1. What had Paul denied he attained? ANSWER: "already perfect"

2. Nevertheless did he persue it? ANSWER: "I follow after"

3. Did he STOP persuing "perfection" simply because he did not count himself as apprehending it? ANSWER: "reaching forth...I press toward the mark..."

4. Did his FAILURE in the past stop this pursuit? ANSWER: "forgeting those things which are behind"


MORE QUESTIONS:

1. What goal is worthy to pursue other than perfection?

2. Do artists ever stop trying to pursue the perfect painting?

3. Do athletes ever stop trying to PERFECT their skills


The Christian lives between the tension of indwelling sin and delight after the inward man in God's perfect law of liberty and nothing less than striving for sinlessness satisfies the inward new man.

Moreover, it is this striving for perfection that is part of GROWTH which without there would be no spiritual growth.

Now, the only ones who believe they can acheive sinless perfection are either unmarried and without children or never ask their spouse to be honest with them - they are a joke at best and deceived at minimum.

Paul didn't believe his ship had come in. Others on here? Well, obviously they think theirs has. :wavey:

The indictment of 1 John 1:8 of those who say they are without sin stands.

- Peace

 

[JarJo]

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

HP: Of the truth we certainly live in perilous times. Here is a passage that speaks of such a time as this. I find this most interesting passage. It seems 'in a sense' even self contradictory. Godliness and being lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God aren't absolute antipodes with each other, and so are the other issues mentioned. How could it be that some would have a "form of godliness" yet obviously living in open sin?

My question to the list is how can this be? What is Scripture speaking of by "having a form of godliness?"

Maybe their 'form of godliness' is showy external religion like the pharisees, but they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

 

[preacher4truth]

Maybe their 'form of godliness' is showy external religion like the pharisees, but they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Yes. The Pharisees also believed they were without sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JarJo: Maybe their 'form of godliness' is showy external religion like the pharisees, but they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

HP: Good point.:thumbsup: Living proof that deception is found in many places.