3 days latter

[blackbird]

What spirits?? In what prison??

Alcatraz?
Parchman?
Angola?

Why was there a need to preach again??

Was He preaching to folks like Abraham?? What would "A Friend of God" be doing in prison? If Abraham "believed and it was counted unto him for righteousness---what was he doing in prison??

Was He preaching to David?? What would "A Man After God's Own Heart" be doing in prison? If in fact David proclaimed in Psalm 16:11, "In Thy presence there is fullness of joy; at Thy right hand there are pleasures forever more"----reckon what kind of fullness was he experienceing in prison?? What kind of pleasure is there being in prison??

If He went to preach to the lost folks---was not Noah's gospel good enough?? Or was it a different gospel??

Please enlighten this preacher who has nothing to do but to learn something he doesn't know!

 

[BobRyan]

#1. Paradise is never called "Abraham's Bosom" in all of scripture. (Not even once).

#2. Paradise is never said to "move between "OT and NT" -- not even once in all of scripture.

#3. Paul speaks of the dead saints in 1Thess 4 as does Christ in John 11 - as being those that "are asleep". In fact says of them "THE DEAD in Christ shall rise first" after already describing them as "those who are asleep".

#4. IN Luke Christ said "Verily I say unto you today you SHALL be with Me in paradise" -- and Christ says this in answer to the request "Remember me WHEN you come into your kingdom"

There is only ONE Paradise and that is where 2Cor 12 places it -- in the 3rd heaven. (Rev places it with the Throne of God). That is the only place it has ever been.

Christ was pointing to the SAME future event that the theif on the cross mentioned - the point "WHEN Christ comes into His Kingdom" and event we see happening in Rev 19 and in Daniel 7.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Blackbird:

1 pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

The scripture speaks for itself. Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison. The time that he did that was AFTER he died on the cross and BEFORE he ascended into heaven.

End of story!!

Peace,

Tam

I have to differ with you on that one. Read the text carefully in chapter 3 and compare what Peter already said in Chapter 1 about that Gospel preaching "About the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow" that had ALREADY happened in the OT. In Chapter 3 the reference is to the "spirits NOW in prison who ONCE were disobedient IN THE DAYS OF NOAH during the building of the ark" - the focus is JUST on the generation ALIVE at the time of the building of the ark.

So if you're going to use that text to get all the OT saints "saved" -- you have a huge problem cause it only gets ONE generation - that of the wicked living during the building of the ark.

Better to rely on good exegesis.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Cix]

Originally posted by Kamoroso:

John 20:16-17 "16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

The Greek word employed here actually means "to cling to." Jesus was not forbidding Mary to touch Him, but rather forbidding her to cling on to Him as if to prevent His departure --- a completely different concept.

 

[Cix]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
#1. Paradise is never called "Abraham's Bosom" in all of scripture. (Not even once).

Abraham's Bosom
(Luk_16:22, Luk_16:23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him. To “be in Abraham's bosom” thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Mat_8:11; Luk_16:23) at the banquet in Paradise. (See BANQUET; MEAL.)
Easton's Bible Dictionary.


Abraham's Bosom

In Roman times, their custom of reclining on Couches at meals prevailed among the Jews. Each leaned on his left arm, and so lay, as it were, in the bosom of the next below him. This position in the bosom of the master of the house was the place of honor (Joh_1:18; Joh_13:23). To lie in Abraham's bosom was thus a phrase for blessed repose in closest nearness to the father of the faithful in the feast of paradise (Mat_8:11; Luk_16:23).
Faussets Bible Dictionary.

 

[BobRyan]

Cix -

I think you are right to point out a number of traditions pointing to different ways to view paradise or "Abraham's bosom" (Abraham's lap?).

But in all this -- "not one scripture that says that Paradise is CALLED Abraham's bosom or one scripture that CALLS Abraham's bosom - paradise".

For all those imaginative ways of viewing the tradition - we only have "more tradition".

Matt 8 does not mention it. John 1 does not mention it ...

In fact "Paradise" is only mentioned THREE times in all of the NT. (Count them -- 3).

"Abraham's bosom" is onlyl mentioned ONCE in all of scripture and THAT chapter makes NO reference AT ALL to "Paradise".

And of the THREE precious "few" NT texts that mention Paradise only ONE is ever quoted by people trying to assign paradise to "Abraham's bosom" -- what does that tell you?

A real interest in the BIBLE teaching on "Paradise" would mention "ALL THREE". But -- this is never done because the MORE information we have on what the BIBLE says about it - the LESS it can be made to blend in with "tradition".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Cix:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kamoroso:

John 20:16-17 "16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

The Greek word employed here actually means "to cling to." Jesus was not forbidding Mary to touch Him, but rather forbidding her to cling on to Him as if to prevent His departure --- a completely different concept. </font>[/QUOTE]That argument is made from "nuance" not actual "definition". In fact the context makes it clear that Mary did not trap Christ - He was WAITING for her. In fact selectively waiting BEYOND the visit of other disciples where He did NOT choose to reveal Himself.

This is instructive. The context then makes it a reference to clinging as an act of devotion and worship. Christ is not saying "I don't I have time for you I want to leave because I have better and more urgent things to do".

Rather Christ is saying in essence "your worship and devotion must be delayed until I return from the Father and have His proclamation about my sacrifice for mankind". Christ's, message and focus was always on "selfelss ministry" -- the "I don't really have time for this devotion" idea - never is expressed by Christ toward Mary.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Could Jesus not have meant, 'Don't hold me so tight; I haven't gone away to the Father yet, but will stay on a little longer with you'?
Gerhard

 

[BobRyan]

I don't see him "complaining that someone is squeezing too tight" as the key spiritual truth here.

I think His statement about going to the Father was very directly connected to the worship Mary was giving. That was the issue. Christ came to provide the "perfect sacrifice" for all the sins of all the world - and this sacrifice had to completely satisfy what God's justice demanded.

Though I don't thing Christ was "in the dark" on what the Father thought of the sacrifice - I do think that He and the Father were going to be very above board and legally "just" in every aspect of this "payment for sin" and the right to claim all mankind as redeemed -- and Christ as savior.

As Romans 3:3-4 says "God" will be "found to have been just" when He is evaluated.

In Christ,

Bob