3 Point Calvinists?

[Jarthur001]

An answer to your question...

Now I understand...you make no point. got it.

You can believe in as many points as you wish. If you don't hold to all 5, you are not a calvinist...you are confused.

Again..you do as you feel lead. Tell other what they are, and I will stick to asking them.

I believe you have..."You in the past have tried on your own to bate Calvinist between Calvinist for things like ..."where does sin come from"...."does faith come 1st or the new birth" as well as other. Please tell me you agree with this. If not I will take the time and show the threads to all."

i rest my case.

I happen to attend a church associated with the SBC. That's hardly "taking sides"

Which is a label. Look, people try to say they do not wish to be labeled, but the fact is we all use them. Labels help us to cut out wasted repeated words so we can get to the point. In other words lets say labels were not used and I told you I want to church. You being smarter then the average bear knows that all churches are not the same. So you ask, what does your church teach? I say the Bible. Again you know that some believe one way..and some believe another. So you not knowing me well ask me to tell all what I believe and ask about each doctrine my church teaches. Six days later, It is my turn to ask you.

Using labels I can say I go to the Baptist church and right away you have a good idea what I believe. I could go on and say, I'm a Calvinist and you could know more about me, without talking much at all. We have cut alot of wasted time out and now we can get to know each other.

There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a Baptist if you believe as a Baptist. This lets others know what you believe and it does not mean you worship John the Baptist.

There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a Calvinist, if you believe as a Calvinist. This lets others know what you believe and it does not mean you worship John Calvin.

 

[webdog]

Now I understand...you make no point. got it.

Kind of like your posts

Again..you do as you feel lead. Tell other what they are, and I will stick to asking them.

More like telling them what they are not. A 3 point calvinist is not a calvinist. Period.

i rest my case.

You had a case?

People can call themselves whatever they wish, it doesn't make it true...truth isn't relative.

 

[Jarthur001]

Kind of like your posts

I kinda like my post too.

More like telling them what they are not. A 3 point calvinist is not a calvinist. Period.

You are making my case easy.

You had a case?

Yes. I made a statement about you pitting Calvinist againist Calvinist and I never said you started a thread with those very words though you may have. It was liken unto those subjects. oh yeah and another thing...."those subjects PERIOD".

People can call themselves whatever they wish, it doesn't make it true...truth isn't relative.

Yes..like calling people a non-Calvinist, when they say they are a 3 pointer. The truth is relative to the true facts. The fact remains that some only hold to 3 or 4 points. Charles Ryrie is one. If Charles want to be a 3 pointer, that is his business. But don't feel bad. I'm a 5 point Calvinist and my mother calls me James.

 

[J.D.]

It seems to me that the term Calvinist represents all five points of the famous TULIP and anything less would not fit the conventional definition. However, a person might appropriately describe their beliefs as "Calvinistic" IMO if they hold to some degree of theistic determinism.

I think it's like this:

5 points = got it right
4 points (sans L) = somewhat confused
3 1/2 point (sans L and perseverence but keep preservation) = slightly more confused
Less than 3 1/2 points = completely inconsistant.

 

[webdog]

I kinda like my post too.

Glad someone does

Yes. I made a statement about you pitting Calvinist againist Calvinist and I never said you started a thread with those very words though you may have. It was liken unto those subjects. oh yeah and another thing...."those subjects PERIOD".

Normally when a statement is put in quotations...that usually means that person is credited with saying the phrase. Language cop should know this. Period.

Yes..like calling people a non-Calvinist, when they say they are a 3 pointer. The truth is relative to the true facts. The fact remains that some only hold to 3 or 4 points. Charles Ryrie is one. If Charles want to be a 3 pointer, that is his business. But don't feel bad. I'm a 5 point Calvinist and my mother calls me James.

J.D. even agrees that 3 or 4 pointers are "slightly" and "somewhat confused", or "inconsistant" (notice the use of quotations).
All 5 points stand and fall together PERIOD (is that better?)

 

[J.D.]

Glad someone does

Normally when a statement is put in quotations...that usually means that person is credited with saying the phrase. Language cop should know this. Period.

J.D. even agrees that 3 or 4 pointers are "slightly" and "somewhat confused", or "inconsistant" (notice the use of quotations).
All 5 points stand and fall together PERIOD (is that better?)

Trying to pit me against my friend James eh? It ain't gonna work!

But seriously, while I did say that I don't think someone can accurately call themselves a "Calvinist" unless they hold to 5 points, I don't agree with your statement that all 5 points stand or fall together. I think limited atonement can stand or fall on its own merits without affecting the other points, logically speaking. To me, the idea of universal atonement is not a misunderstanding of predestination and election, but it is a misunderstanding of the nature of the atonement itself, along with erroneous interpretations of the word "all" in reference to the atonement.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a Calvinist, if you believe as a Calvinist. This lets others know what you believe and it does not mean you worship John Calvin.

Right. Saying that you are a Freudian Psychologist does not mean you worship Freud.

 

[drfuss]

Unconditional election/irresistible grace?

I hold to those three points and not the other and I am not a "calvinist" as such terms are ungodly according to 1 Cor 1

quote:
"drfuss: I agree you are not a Calvinist. Perhaps you can explain to me how you can believe in unconditional election and not in irresistible grace. In the Calvinist model, God unconditionally decides who will be elected with the Christian having no part in the decision (He may think he decided, but he was not involved in the decision to be elected). If you don't believe in irresistible grace, then grace is resistible; and the Christian was involved in the decision to accept Christ which conflicts with unconditional election.

Is your definitions of unconditional election and irresistible grace the same as the 5 Point Calvinists?

Again, am I missing something?" quote

drfuss: I am still hoping 2 Timothy2:1-4 will enlighten me on how he can believe in unconditional election and not in irresisitible grace.