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33 Uncomfortable Questions for Progressives

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What I'm seeing you claim is the people who raise venture capital for you through investments, which lead to the ability of your bank to lend you money, don't earn their profits? Is that right?

Really?

No, what I am saying is people that make their living by trading derivatives, futures options, churning stock trades, etc. are non-producers that have figured out a way to make loads of money on the sweat of others. Remember the guy about ten years ago that bought oil futures at $100 a barrel just to be the first person to do it? That guy is exhibit A in my argument.
 
No, what I am saying is people that make their living by trading derivatives, futures options, churning stock trades, etc. are non-producers that have figured out a way to make loads of money on the sweat of others. Remember the guy about ten years ago that bought oil futures at $100 a barrel just to be the first person to do it? That guy is exhibit A in my argument.
Your argument is dead on arrival. Those activities, whether the people who initiate them intend it or not, is what raises the money that becomes venture capital, investment revenue, and bank loans for your company, for my practice.

If investment and stock trading cease, if the derivatives and futures markets close, there is no money that generates the work that becomes "the sweat of others." Failing to see that is exceptionally myopic, and the equivalent of biting the hand that feeds you. Let those activities "go away" and see what it costs you to borrow money, if you can borrow it at all. See how fast your business dries up and fails because no one is generating the investment funds that drive the economy. Without investment, trading, speculation, there is no economy, plain and simple. Even in the infancy of this nation's expansion, the general stores and the feed and seed suppliers west of the Mississippi depended heavily on investment in the products produced out west by people with money back east who apparently had no part of that production. The reality was, the production was the direct result of the investment, and that hasn't changed today.

To claim that investors, traders, speculators, etc., produce "nothing" is to expose extreme naivete about how this economy works.
 
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InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Your argument is dead on arrival. Those activities, whether the people who initiate them intend it or not, is what raises the money that becomes venture capital, investment revenue, and bank loans for your company, for my practice.

To claim that investors, traders, speculators, etc., produce "nothing" is to expose extreme naivete about how this economy works.

VC is not created by people that bet on derivatives. Modern financial derivatives have only been around for about 30 years. To say that these people and trades are the fuel that allows the underwriting of IPOs and is the source of bank credit is ridiculous. How did derivatives work out for Barclays Bank, Enron, AIG, Lehman's Bros., etc.?

Futures options have been around for about 40 years.

I wonder how J. P. Morgan, Merrill Lynch, etc. made their money prior to the 1970's in order to underwrite IPOs?

Notice I'm not dissing all investors or traders here, just these types. I'm well aware that they are necessary to a functioning economy.
 

go2church

Active Member
Site Supporter
Why is there a department of education, which according to conservative ideals should be local decisions?

Established in 1979, Reagan could have nipped it in the bud almost immediately, yet it continues.

Both parties are guilty of funding their pet projects, creating layers of bureaucracy and mismanagement.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why is there a department of education, which according to conservative ideals should be local decisions?

Established in 1979, Reagan could have nipped it in the bud almost immediately, yet it continues.

Both parties are guilty of funding their pet projects, creating layers of bureaucracy and mismanagement.

They are but it needs to stop. Of course I am not sure that it is true Reagan could have done that.

The establishment GOP needs to come to an end. Boehner and McCain being a prime example.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
They are but it needs to stop. Of course I am not sure that it is true Reagan could have done that.

The establishment GOP needs to come to an end. Boehner and McCain being a prime example.

Reagan campaigned against it, as you know, but the votes were never there for him to get it done. Kemp wanted to abolish HUD, also.
 

go2church

Active Member
Site Supporter
To follow through, there has been plenty of opportunity, when supposed conservatives controlled house, senate and presidency yet it continues. It is the president who creates these positions, senate who confirms and funds. But that is a side issue to my larger point
 
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