4 of Satan’s biggest lies to born-again believers

[Samuels]

Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives <------ Agreed.
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives <------- Agreed.
Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn <-------- Agreed.
Believers must be victorious overcomers <------ Agreed.

So, you agree that if believers do not do these things, they lose salvation.
Excellent.

 

[Dave G]

So, you agree that if believers do not do these things, they lose salvation.
Excellent.

Again, it appears that you've the cart before the horse, Samuels.
I'm not agreeing to loss of salvation.

That would negate Christ's promises, and make Him out to be a liar.
I agree that believers must do them.
It's necessary evidence, not condisiotns that must be met by someone's own power.

If they do not, then the evidence for salvation is not there.
Also, fruit and spiritual maturity take time...


Don't expect holiness and being victorious overcomers overnight.

 

[John I Morris]

Satan's lie:
All of your sins (past, present, future)
have been forgiven

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NKJV)
>>> “OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“… having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
>>> “FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“… forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
>>> “PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

John is writing to his fellow Christians …
“But if we confess our sins to him,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse …
all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins …
We must confess our sins and turn from them …
We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance … we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary;
Dr. Thomas Hale, missionary to Nepal)

Paul warns the errant Corinthian church that their …
“godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:9-10, NKJV)

Satan's lie:
You are now righteous

“… you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living … So now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living” (Romans 6:16-19)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) … In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)

“… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness and a godly life … pursue righteous living” (1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 2:22)

Satan's lie:
You are now holy

“… give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19)

“work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

“God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin … live in holiness and honor. … God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human teaching but is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

“you must live as God’s obedient children … now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, ‘You must be holy because I am holy.’ ”
(1 Peter 1:14-15)

Satan's lie:
You have been saved and can never lose salvation

“… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)

“For to be carnally-minded is (eternal) death, but to be spiritually-minded is (eternal) life and peace.” (Romans 8:5-6)

“For IF you live according to the flesh you will die (eternal death); but IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life).” (Romans 8:13)

“For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption (eternal death), but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-15)
Jesus often said. “Those who love Me will obey
My commandments.” (4 times in John 14)

My reply is to one point. I feel sorry for you if you really think that salvation is conditional, after you have done what's required in (Romans 10:9-13).You are deceived if you don't believe (Ephesians 1:13) "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of PROMISE." and (Ephesians 4:30), "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye were SEALED unto the day of REDEMPTION." Caps were added by me, but the Holy Spirit of God SEALS you once you have responded to the gospel and received the finished payment of Christ on the cross, His bodily resurrection, His complete payment of your sin debt. If you do not see that you are of all people most blind to the gift of God! Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God: NOT of works, lest any man should boast."
Also, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2). Sin does not send one to hell, the lack of repenting and turning to Jesus sends the soul to hell. Our righteousness is as filthy rags! (Isaiah 64:6). BTW all Scriptures are KJV in this post. Last verse; "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall NOT come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24). God says that you will NOT come into condemnation, does He mean it or not? Does God lie? Absolutely not! So, are you going to believe the Scripture or hold to a false doctrine about losing your salvation?! When Jesus died on the cross He said "It is finished." He did not say, "I did my part, now its up to you to do the rest." Are you going to believe the Scriptures or not?

 

[John I Morris]

Let me also say, for some of the previous posts, a text out of context is a pretext not a proof text! I learned this a long time ago in preaching class. Try it on for size, it really works well.

 

[Samuels]

I feel sorry for you if you really think that salvation is conditional ...

I feel sorry for you because you have been brainwashed into false doctrines!
Salvation is conditional because of all the NT verses involved which say it is.
E.G. Have you ever noticed the dozen "IF" conditional NT verses?
Because of the whole entire NT ...
the NT word "believe" must mean a lot more than what people assume it means.
True Saving Belief-Faith = ENDURING belief-faith, obedience, overcoming sin, etc.

Do you have any connection with the Morris family of ICR?

 

[John I Morris]

I feel sorry for you because you have been brainwashed into false doctrines!
Salvation is conditional because of all the NT verses involved which say it is.
E.G. Have you ever noticed the dozen "IF" conditional NT verses?
Because of the whole entire NT ...
the NT word "believe" must mean a lot more than what people assume it means.
True Saving Belief-Faith = ENDURING belief-faith, obedience, overcoming sin, etc.

Do you have any connection with the Morris family of ICR?

Not that I know of. I am steadfast on the fact that once we accept the gospel, repent and are born again, we cannot be unborn. Have a great day.

 

[Samuels]

Let me also say, for some of the previous posts, a text out of context is a pretext not a proof text! I learned this a long time ago in preaching class. Try it on for size, it really works well.

Why don't you take one of my verses and show how it's out of context?
Or, are you like many people who just HOPE they're out of context.

 

[Dave G]

Why don't you take one of my verses and show how it's out of context?

Sure.

Let's take a look at 2 Peter 1:9, in context:

" whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." ( 2 Peter 1:5-11 ).

Placed back into the passage, I see this:

4) Believers are given ( they did not earn ) precious promises...not what-if's.
By these precious promises, they might be partakers of the divine nature ( being born again of incorruptible "seed", see 1 Peter 1:23 )..and now for the important part.
Having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5) Besides this, giving all diligence, ad to the believer's faith many things.
6) More things being added to the believers' faith.
7) and more.
8) If these things be in the believer ( the things they've taken the time and diligent effort to add to their faith ), they make them neither barren or unfruitful in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

9) He that lacks these things is blind and cannot see far off and has forgotten that he was purged ( forgiven and made clean ) from his old sins.
This, I think, is where you get confused.
God already forgave all trespasses...so the "old sins" here is the same, "all trespasses" as that found in Colossians 2:13-14.
To me, you're seeing "old sins" as being those sins committed prior to being born again.

10) He then tells them to give diligence to make their calling and election sure ( in their own minds and consciences ).
If they do these things, they shall never fall.
Fall from what?
From their steadfastness, which he develops further just 2 chapters later in 2 Peter 3:17.

Side note:
Do you know what "calling and election" are?
Please see Romans 8:29-30.

"Elect" and "select" come from similar Latin words.
"Eligere" and "seligere"...both meaning "chosen" or "picked out".
Chosen by Whom?


So, as I see it, you're using 2 Peter 1:9 out of context by fixating on the term "old sins", which you then assume means, "past sins", but not present and not future.
As an exercise in study, please tell me how a person's past sins can be forgiven by the blood of Christ on the cross, but not their present or future sins.

I'll put it another way...

How can some sins be forgiven, while the rest remain unforgiven until a request is made to forgive them?
To me, that necessitates remaining in a "state of grace", with all sins being confessed immediately, and living with the mortal fear that one of them ( a sin of "omission" ) might be missed.
That's not being at peace with God, Samuels.

Christ's sacrifice was once, for all ( Hebrews 10:11-13 )

Then there's this:
" For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." ( Hebrews 10:14 ).

All sins were forgiven at the cross.
The believer was perfected and sanctified ( made holy ).

His was not a continuing sacrifice...it was once, for all.

 

[MB]

Why don't you take one of my verses and show how it's out of context?
Or, are you like many people who just HOPE they're out of context.

If Christ gives eternal life and then for transgression takes it away The eternal life he first gave you wasn't eternal was it ?. Every believer here believes in obedience. But that Obedience is not for Salvation, it's because of our love of God. We don't have any righteousness in our selves instead we wear the righteousness of Christ. You should too because your righteousness is as filthy rags.
MB

 

[John I Morris]

Why don't you take one of my verses and show how it's out of context?
Or, are you like many people who just HOPE they're out of context.

I realize that you think that you are smarter and more spiritual than others, but fact of the matter is you are not. You disprove Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 or maybe John 3:16-17; Romans 10:9-13; Romans 8:27-39. So, if you can overlook these to try and prove your "works salvation" help yourself. Our justification is in Christ, not in our good works. I am not on the hot seat, you are. You are a work your way to heaven or you don't get there person. I am done with this little chat, you can goad all you want, I quit responding to people who set up straw men a long time ago. Also childish taunts, don't work here. I've gone to far in this one. Bye, bye.

 

[Revmitchell]

I feel sorry for you because you have been brainwashed into false doctrines!

I see you have read the book "How to win friends and influence people"! Good job!

 

[Samuels]

So, as I see it, you're using 2 Peter 1:9 out of context by fixating on the term "old sins",
which you then assume means, "past sins", but not present and not future.
As an exercise in study, please tell me how a person's past sins can be forgiven
by the blood of Christ on the cross, but not their present or future sins.

All translations that I'm aware of have: old, past, previous, etc.

Have you not read the NT verses about BACs being TESTED?
Or, of them being told to CONFESS their sins to have them cleansed?

It's all about jumping through hoops, dog and pony shows, etc.
whilst trying to uphold old and tedious and false doctrines.

 

[Samuels]

If Christ gives eternal life and then for transgression takes it away The eternal life he first gave you wasn't eternal was it ?. Every believer here believes in obedience. But that Obedience is not for Salvation, it's because of our love of God. We don't have any righteousness in our selves instead we wear the righteousness of Christ. You should too because your righteousness is as filthy rags.

Your Isaiah verses refers to man before becoming a BAC.
And ...
Please explain the copious NT verses in the up-coming righteousness thread.
Thank you.

 

[Dave G]

Have you not read the NT verses about BACs being TESTED?

Yes.
The testing is in accordance with Matthew 13:18-23 and 1 Corinthians 11:19.

Again, there are true believers and false believers mixed together ( Matthew 13:30 ), and those tests will confirm whether or not we are God's children.
Those who pass the tests of faith are His, while those who do not, never were.

He will say to those who have not been genuinely born again but are religious, " I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." and " Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
While He will tell those that He has saved according to the Father's will ( John 6:39, John 17:2 ), " Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

Or, of them being told to CONFESS their sins to have them cleansed?

I think you're hung up on the "requirements" again, Samuels.

" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." ( 1 John 1:9 )

Since all trespasses were forgiven at the cross ( Colossians 2:13-14 ), then this is yet another evidence of a believer, not a "requirement" that must be met by those who are His.

It's all about jumping through hoops, dog and pony shows, etc.
whilst trying to uphold old and tedious and false doctrines.

I'm sorry if that is the way you see it.

I remember years ago as a new believer, seeing it exactly the same way you appear to...but the more I read, the more apparent it became that I was initially understanding it all backwards.

There are no "hoops" to jump through.
It just appears that way.

 

[Samuels]

Since all trespasses were forgiven at the cross ( Colossians 2:13-14 ) ...

Apparently, you do not believe what 2 Peter 1:9 obviously says!

 

[Dave G]

Apparently, you do not believe what 2 Peter 1:9 obviously says!

Sure I do..."old sins" means the baggage of my sin-debt that God, in His mercy, has cast behind Him...as far as east is from west.
All my sins.

"Old", because they are forgiven.
"Old" because to Him, they are past history.

 

[Samuels]

"Old", because they are forgiven.
"Old" because to Him, they are past history.

Okay, have it your way ... "New" are not forgiven, just the "Old".
Give it up, man.

 

[Dave G]

Okay, have it your way ... "New" are not forgiven, just the "Old".

Answer me something, Samuels?

If sins in the life of a believer remain unconfessed, does the believer go to Hell?

 

[Samuels]

Answer me something, Samuels?
---- Please, no question mark.

If sins in the life of a believer remain unconfessed, does the believer go to Hell?
---- If they are major sins (e.g. that famous unpardonable sin), yes.
Another e.g. If you refuse to forgive someone, Father God will NOT forgive you.

Praise the Lord.

 

[Dave G]

--- If they are major sins (e.g. that famous unpardonable sin), yes.
Another e.g. If you refuse to forgive someone, Father God will NOT forgive you.

"Major" sins?
I think I saw this somewhere...

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Sin
"Mortal" and "venial" sins.

But I've never seen it in Scripture, anywhere.
I did see this:
" For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. " ( James 2:10 ).

Sin, is sin, is sin, Samuels.
They all carry the penalty of death.
Stealing is as bad as murder, is as bad as lying, in God's eyes.

In fact, He says that it's just as bad to look at a woman and lust after her, as it is to commit the act ( Matthew 5:28 ).


All are in direct disobedience to His will.