400 years......

[menageriekeeper]

Between the OT and the NT.

Why?

Are there other periods of "silence" that last this long in the OT?

Are there writings from this period that weren't included in our Bible?

 

[Johnv]

There was a roughly 350 year gap between the time Joshua and Judges were written.

There was a roughly 150 year gap between the times Ecclesiastes and Jonah were written.

Revelation, the Gospel of John, and 1,2 & 3 John were written some 30 years after all the other books of the NT were penned.

I don't think the "gap" in writing means anything other than no one was writing material at that time that would be eventually included in the current canon.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Many of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical books were written in this time period.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical books were written in this time period.

. . . and probably the Book of Daniel.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by menageriekeeper:
Between the OT and the NT.

Why?

Are there other periods of "silence" that last this long in the OT?

Are there writings from this period that weren't included in our Bible?

God quit broadcasting His Word during those years, just as He has done today. He left His written Word with His people, just as He has done for we today.

No inspired Word by the Spirit was given to man to write Holy Scripture during those years. Prophecy was being fulfilled, and bringing the world to the point of the Word being made flesh.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

[menageriekeeper]

Prophecy was being fulfilled, and bringing the world to the point of the Word being made flesh.

Ituttut would you elaborate please? What prophecies were fullfilled during this time? A link to where I can study it for myself would be okay. (not much knowledge of ancient history in my menagerie)

 

[Scarlett O.]

I don't know a whole lot about a whole lot, but I think that there is kind of a neat parallel between the 400 year bondage in Egypt and the 400 year silence between the OT and the NT.

There was a 400 year silence from God while the Israelites were in bondage in Egypt.

Then...a deliverer was sent (Moses), Aaron initially spoke for him, and the people were saved from the bondage of the Egyptians, they were give the law, and those who committed themselves to God were allowed to see the Promised Land. (except for Moses)

Then there was a 400 year silence between the OT and NT.

Then....."The Deliverer" was sent (Jesus), John the Baptizer initially spoke for Him, people were saved from the bondage of sin, the law was "fulfilled" and all who commit themselves to Jesus Christ are allowed to enter the REAL Promised Land which is Heaven. (including Moses)

 

[Marcia]

God was timing everything. His people had the scriptures but were departing from them, so God let them go on like that, and then zapped them with the birth of Jesus.

I think it's fitting that Jesus was born after a 400 year period of silence from the Lord. It was then clear that John the Baptist was the one foretold in the OT to announce the Messiah.

 

[ituttut]

QUOTE]Originally posted by menageriekeeper:

Prophecy was being fulfilled, and bringing the world to the point of the Word being made flesh.

Ituttut would you elaborate please? What prophecies were fullfilled during this time? A link to where I can study it for myself would be okay. (not much knowledge of ancient history in my menagerie) [/QUOTE]

Thanks for asking. There is not too much to elaborate. The link I use and suggest all should use is the Bible.

Prophesy had to extend to what Malachi prophesies. Malachi 4:5 advises, ”Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” This of course is John the Baptist whose birth we find in Luke, chapter one. Jesus identifies His forerunner John, the one to prepare the way of the coming of the Lord in Matthew and proclaiming to the nation Israel the “kingdom is at hand”, and this nation that made covenant with God is to “repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins”.

We also see in Malachi the great tribulation looming ahead for Israel.

So believing the Bible I believe the 400 years was included in prophecy. Matthew 11:13-14, ”For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.” The “kingdom” could not come until John, and prophecy demands the “kingdom would have to be at hand”.

The 400 hundred years was necessary to make ready for the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as was the 400 hundred years to make Israel a nation in Egypt. Mark 1:1-2, ”The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2. As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

What we also see here is the gospel has not always been the same, as so many here believe. This is the dispensational gospel of Jesus Christ when He came to this earth. When He is seated beside His Father in Heaven, He will give another gospel for the reconciling of the whole world, of those who will.

Trust this will be of benefit to you.
Christian faith, ituttut

[ March 03, 2006, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: ituttut ]

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Scarlett O.:
I don't know a whole lot about a whole lot, but I think that there is kind of a neat parallel between the 400 year bondage in Egypt and the 400 year silence between the OT and the NT.

There was a 400 year silence from God while the Israelites were in bondage in Egypt.

Then...a deliverer was sent (Moses), Aaron initially spoke for him, and the people were saved from the bondage of the Egyptians, they were give the law, and those who committed themselves to God were allowed to see the Promised Land. (except for Moses)

Then there was a 400 year silence between the OT and NT.

Then....."The Deliverer" was sent (Jesus), John the Baptizer initially spoke for Him, people were saved from the bondage of sin, the law was "fulfilled" and all who commit themselves to Jesus Christ are allowed to enter the REAL Promised Land which is Heaven. (including Moses)

Scarlett O, I didn't mean to step on your toes, but this happens on occasion for I normally don't read ahead. But in any event I needed to show prophecy did extend to the beginning of the gospel of Christ, which is what John the Baptist preached to the nation of Israel.

 

[DeeJay]

Ituttit

Malachi 4:5 advises, ”Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” This of course is John the Baptist whose birth we find in Luke, chapter one.

Does this say the John the baptist is the prophet Elijah? How can that be, please explain. I have always thought that this verse Malachi 4:5 was speaking of the second coming and one of the two witnesses.

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical books were written in this time period.

. . . and probably the Book of Daniel.

</font>[/QUOTE]If one buys into the nonsense of the JEPD type school of thought regarding the OT.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Many of the OT Books we know today were being codified into their present form during the 400-200 BCE era. Many of the Psalms were written long before but not in the present 150-format we enjoy.

Remember, the Jewish council determining what books were to be included in the canon did not occur until shortly before Nicea (345 CE) and formation of the NT canon!

It wasn't like Malachi finished writing and then everyone had a neat 39-book scroll.

But that said, let's stone Craig for implying that Daniel didn't write the book and lied about it.

(notice he gave a little graemlin, knowing he was pushing the envelope here!)

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
But that said, let's stone Craig for implying that Daniel didn't write the book and lied about it.

(notice he gave a little graemlin, knowing he was pushing the envelope here!)

I'll join you if you bring the stones and I can lay my jacket at your feet!

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical books were written in this time period.

. . . and probably the Book of Daniel.

</font>[/QUOTE]If one buys into the nonsense of the JEPD type school of thought regarding the OT. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do you call 'good scholarly research' nonsense??

That seems a little harsh, to me. Personally, I prefer to refer to the Documentary Hypothesis (JEPD) as "the old 'four writers takning turns' theory".
Or alternatively 'the old "Whose turn is it to write now?" theory'.
In His grace,
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Many of the OT Books we know today were being codified into their present form during the 400-200 BCE era. Many of the Psalms were written long before but not in the present 150-format we enjoy.

Remember, the Jewish council determining what books were to be included in the canon did not occur until shortly before Nicea (345 CE) and formation of the NT canon!

It wasn't like Malachi finished writing and then everyone had a neat 39-book scroll.

But that said, let's stone Craig for implying that Daniel didn't write the book and lied about it.

(notice he gave a little graemlin, knowing he was pushing the envelope here!)

Ed

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by DeeJay:
Ituttit

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Malachi 4:5 advises, ”Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” This of course is John the Baptist whose birth we find in Luke, chapter one.

Does this say the John the baptist is the prophet Elijah? How can that be, please explain. I have always thought that this verse Malachi 4:5 was speaking of the second coming and one of the two witnesses. </font>[/QUOTE]Hello DeeJay. Yes, I know what you mean and many see that in this verse. While this could be taken for the meaning, I believe upon further examination and study of His Word this view is in error. I do not believe the Word can contradict itself and the view presented will do this. If you will bear with me we can find the answer in His Word.

To answer your question of, “Does this say John the Baptist is the prophet Elijah? How can that be, please explain.” We find specific reference to this in Matthew 11. Verses 1 to 10 set the stage to identify Elijah that has come. Matthew 11:11-15, ”Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

We can see here that Jesus identifies for us who is Elijah (Elias being the Greek form). John the Baptist then fulfills the prophecy in Malachi 4:5 as Elijah has come before the tribulation, if we will receive it. Since I receive the information Jesus gives, we know we still await that tribulation, and we know why.

John came preaching to the nation Israel his gospel of “repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins” as the “kingdom is at hand”. Israel had not kept “covenant” that they made with God, and they must Repent of this, and they must under covenant Be Baptized for the Remission of their Sins. This command carried until they were cut off, and after that they are to be treated just as me, a heathen Gentile. The “kingdom of heaven could not come” (Christ’s kingdom) for His people crucified Him. Is God going to do something about this?

God in the Old Testament tells us He is a Jealous God and said earlier that He would make Israel Jealous, and that is exactly what He is doing today. He warned them over and over that He is a Jealous God. Even today God is still a Jealous God and will not tolerate our worshipping other god’s, or tolerating them being placed beside Him at any time, any place, any where, or any day.

The unsaved Jew today must be seething with all of we Christians running around saying, “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation”. This is the same person they screamed, “crucify him”. They are God’s people they insist, but God has blinded them in their unbelief. But God has not forgotten His people, His first Love. He will yet have her for His own.

But Israel in her lust for the world made it possible for we (me) to enter into the Body of Christ (His kingdom). Not until after Damascus Road do we find such a thing explained, the Body of Christ. This, with other New revelations found in the “unsearchable riches of Christ” is setting up the “final Act” to usher in the “kingdom of God to come”. We are looking for the Rapture, then will come Tribulation, and then comes the “kingdom”.

Since Elijah has already come, I believe another may occupy one of the places of the two witnesses that are not identified.

To solidify Elijah has already come, I believe the Word gives us further evidence which can be found in Matthew 17:12-13, ”But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”

Christian faith, ituttut