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5 inconvenient truths for the fear mongers of covid

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Read it here, I left the explanation of several important reasons.
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation

The tragedy of the COVID-19 pandemic appears to be entering the containment phase. Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.

Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.

Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed COVID-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response — antibodies — so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.” Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases — to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic, shown in early data from the Diamond Princess ship, and then in Iceland and Italy. That has been falsely portrayed as a problem requiring mass isolation. In fact, infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity. By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

Scott W. Atlas, MD, is the David and Joan Traitel Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution and the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center.
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

It is well known that an overwhelming majority do not die. When health systems are not overwhelmed and testing is adequate, the case fatality rate is less than 1%, so 99% of case survive. However many of those cases end up going to hospital and overwhleming hospitals and that is when people start dying, when routine care is hard to deliver and resources need to be rationed. And yes, a large majority of the cases that die are old and have medical problems. This was known since January and has not been ignored. But many young people with no medical problems still go to hospital and ICU, but they survive.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

The UK tried that. Look where they are.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

This is not ignored and is shown in every flatten the curve chart. That you prolong the time it takes for the population to develop immunity so that you don't get the big spike that overwhelms health systems.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

If people are about to die, then their surgery is no longer "non-essential". Emergencies, strokes and heart attacks are meant to still be treated but they are not being optimally treated in areas where hospitals are overrun. Or patients don't want to go to hospitals for fear of covid19. If you don't control the infection rate and reduce cases, they will still be afraid of going to hospital even after lockdowns are lifted.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

Again, the UK tried this and failed.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
why should folks get upset?

"mother nature" has taken almost 60,000 Americans to their grave
but America has taken well over 200,000 babies to the incinerator.
 

Calminian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is well known that an overwhelming majority do not die. ....

Not true. Just talked to someone today, healthy, young, no preconditions, scared to even go outside for a walk. The media is painting a dire picture for political purposes.
 

Calminian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
why should folks get upset?

"mother nature" has taken almost 60,000 Americans to their grave
but America has taken well over 200,000 babies to the incinerator.

Ironic. Leftists consider abortion an essential procedure during the shutdown.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is well known that an overwhelming majority do not die. When health systems are not overwhelmed and testing is adequate, the case fatality rate is less than 1%, so 99% of case survive. However many of those cases end up going to hospital and overwhleming hospitals and that is when people start dying, when routine care is hard to deliver and resources need to be rationed. And yes, a large majority of the cases that die are old and have medical problems. This was known since January and has not been ignored. But many young people with no medical problems still go to hospital and ICU, but they survive.



The UK tried that. Look where they are.



This is not ignored and is shown in every flatten the curve chart. That you prolong the time it takes for the population to develop immunity so that you don't get the big spike that overwhelms health systems.



If people are about to die, then their surgery is no longer "non-essential". Emergencies, strokes and heart attacks are meant to still be treated but they are not being optimally treated in areas where hospitals are overrun. Or patients don't want to go to hospitals for fear of covid19. If you don't control the infection rate and reduce cases, they will still be afraid of going to hospital even after lockdowns are lifted.



Again, the UK tried this and failed.

We are not the UK or Australia. We have much better healthcare. The facts are for the USA and not the old British empire.
 

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
FYI!!

Pastor of FBC Spartanburg, SC is asking Christians to join w/him on May 5 in praying for our country.
Certainly we should already be doing so, but it just seems that a "specified" time could increase one's intensity!
 

777

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
that's right - different country, different people, different healthcare system but according to wiki, the UK tried some of these measure for a whole week:

2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

and there are always shortages there. Also, they don't have the same constitution we have, and some of these orders clearly violate the BoR. Unless they can come up with a vaccine, staying home forever will do nothing.

That being said, I am having the time of my life being able to be at home for every second . . . no lines, no flights, can do all the work from home and I have been hogging my kids' xboxone. I'm not ancient yet, but I have some underlying health problems so I'm going to hole up indefinitely. Others can't, won't, and shouldn't.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is well known that an overwhelming majority do not die. When health systems are not overwhelmed and testing is adequate, the case fatality rate is less than 1%, so 99% of case survive. However many of those cases end up going to hospital and overwhleming hospitals and that is when people start dying, when routine care is hard to deliver and resources need to be rationed. And yes, a large majority of the cases that die are old and have medical problems. This was known since January and has not been ignored. But many young people with no medical problems still go to hospital and ICU, but they survive.



The UK tried that. Look where they are.



This is not ignored and is shown in every flatten the curve chart. That you prolong the time it takes for the population to develop immunity so that you don't get the big spike that overwhelms health systems.



If people are about to die, then their surgery is no longer "non-essential". Emergencies, strokes and heart attacks are meant to still be treated but they are not being optimally treated in areas where hospitals are overrun. Or patients don't want to go to hospitals for fear of covid19. If you don't control the infection rate and reduce cases, they will still be afraid of going to hospital even after lockdowns are lifted.



Again, the UK tried this and failed.

We dont care how yall do it over there.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We dont care how yall do it over there.

Medical lessons learned aren’t applicable in the U.S.? Man that’s really just dumb and willfully ignorant. I hate to break it to you but you aren’t important enough to say “we” on behalf of the country and the board.
 

Wingman68

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Medical lessons learned aren’t applicable in the U.S.? Man that’s really just dumb and willfully ignorant. I hate to break it to you but you aren’t important enough to say “we” on behalf of the country and the board.
Waste of time. You don’t really want to go there in a poll of this board to find out who WE are. You would, predictably, then blame Trump for the results. You should try reining in your disdain. It makes you look like an open book for leftist behavior.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Waste of time. You don’t really want to go there in a poll of this board to find out who WE are. You would, predictably, then blame Trump for the results. You should try reining in your disdain. It makes you look like an open book for leftist behavior.

Exactly right!
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Medical lessons learned aren’t applicable in the U.S.? Man that’s really just dumb and willfully ignorant. I hate to break it to you but you aren’t important enough to say “we” on behalf of the country and the board.

You would like Australia if you like countries with no Bill of Rights. They confiscated guns and they have a strict lockdown with some talk of waiting for a vaccine before re-opening. Maybe they aren't quite the police state of the UK or Canada, but give them time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
I never mentioned australia and none of these points have anything to do with what health system you use. They are all about public health policy keeping cases from getting to the health system.

And for all 5 points the author lies either by stating an easily falsifiable point, or a true point that nobody is ignoring (which he claims is occurring).
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I never mentioned australia and none of these points have anything to do with what health system you use. They are all about public health policy keeping cases from getting to the health system.

And for all 5 points the author lies either by stating an easily falsifiable point, or a true point that nobody is ignoring (which he claims is occurring).

See, that's just not true. The reason for socialized medicine is to force the silence and obedience of the individual for fear of loosing medical treatment from the state.

The UK has a limited system because it is a government system although the wealthy are exempt.

The USA has a free system and only Taiwan did better than we did.

So your remarks are perhaps accurate for the UK and the colonies but not for the USA. Trust Stanford University Medical School and trust the Hoover Institution.
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
So your remarks are perhaps accurate for the UK and the colonies but not for the USA. Trust Stanford University Medical School and trust the Hoover Institution.

the 5 points that the author brought up have nothing to do with what health system you use. They are about public health strategies to prevent the spread of covid19 so that you will have fewer cases going to your health system.

I never mentioned any health systems, just the public health approach of the UK, which was not about their health system (ie hospitals, insurance, NHS) but about advice they gave to their public about what is or is not needed to prevent covid19.

The battle against covid19 is won and lost before a patient steps foot in a doctor’s office or hospital. The health system bears the consequences of what actions or inactions took place before the patient arrives. Because all our treatments currently are supportive care which basically tries to optimize the conditions for the patient to heal themselves.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the 5 points that the author brought up have nothing to do with what health system you use. They are about public health strategies to prevent the spread of covid19 so that you will have fewer cases going to your health system.

I never mentioned any health systems, just the public health approach of the UK, which was not about their health system (ie hospitals, insurance, NHS) but about advice they gave to their public about what is or is not needed to prevent covid19.

The battle against covid19 is won and lost before a patient steps foot in a doctor’s office or hospital. The health system bears the consequences of what actions or inactions took place before the patient arrives. Because all our treatments currently are supportive care which basically tries to optimize the conditions for the patient to heal themselves.

No, you never mentioned the socialized medical system of the UK and how people are at the total mercy of the government under socialized medicine.

What you did do is try to debate a Stanford Professor by comparing an advanced medical system to the overstretched UK socialized system.

Your analogy is false.
 
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